4 ms·

> tl;dr - outside of a specific medical context, scholarly publications describe the term "sterilizing vaccine" including in online forums, as a FUD term by ant

by sinyug 5y ago

> tl;dr - outside of a specific medical context, scholarly publications describe the term "sterilizing vaccine" including in online forums, as a FUD term by anti-vaxxers. This sounds like a conspiracy theory. The first paragraph on the Wikipedia article on Vaccines ends with this sentence:[1] > Some vaccines offer full sterilizing immunity, in which infection is prevented completely. A "sterilizing vaccine" is a vaccine that prevents the vaccinated human/animal from spreading the infection to others. Everyone knows what sterilization means in the medical context.[2][3] It is not a highly technical term that only science-worshipers can understand. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccine [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sterilization_(microbiology) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sterilization_(microbiology) [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sterilization_(medicine) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sterilization_(medicine)

eesmith 5y ago
> This sounds like a conspiracy theory Could you clarify? That is, I provided my references. More specifically, yes, I am claiming that some people spread false conspiracy theories about vaccines, including using "sterilizing vaccine". As supporting evidence I pointed to https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12529-013-9340-z https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12529-013-9340-z ("conspiracy theories ... with the hidden intention to exterminate part of the population" .. "sterilizing vaccine"). (Granted, in Romanian, so not using the exact phrase 'sterilizing vaccine'.) Is there something wrong with the evidence, or relevance to this thread? At the very least, my citations disprove the claim that "2021 consumer media is offering variable definitions", given that pre-2021 scholarly media also offers variable definitions. Your [2] refers to something different - "any process that removes, kills, or deactivates all forms of life". Your [3] refers to something different - "is any of a number of medical methods of birth control that intentionally leaves a person unable to reproduce." The one you want is the hyperlink used by your [1], to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sterilizing_immunity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sterilizing_immunity , which redirects to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutralizing_antibody https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutralizing_antibody . I think you've made my point. Yes, "everyone knows" about [2] and [3]. My references show people avoiding vaccines because of a belief that a given vaccine causes the sterility of [3], so since walterbell actually means [1], then my suggestion is to avoid "a highly technical term that only science-worshipers can understand" which is easily confused with [3] - a confusion that you, I, and others on HN have had! FWIW, the phrase "sterilizing vaccine" is not used in Wikipedia. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?search=%22sterilizing+vaccine%22&title=Special:Search&profile=advanced&fulltext=1&ns0=1 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?search=%22sterilizing+v...
- sinyug 5y ago
  > "conspiracy theories ... with the hidden intention to exterminate part of the population" .. "sterilizing vaccine" walterbell didn't use the phrase "sterilizing vaccine." You did. He was talking about "non-sterilizing vaccines" which has a certain meaning in the context of vaccines and the spread of infectious diseases. That said, I can understand the fear among some people that the pandemic and the vaccine are being used as tools of population extermination. Coercive population control strategies have been used in different parts of the world for a long time. China is using them against the Uyghurs today. Malthusians and groups that advocate aggressive population control strategies exist even today. In early 20th century America, different groups and people across political lines supported the idea of eugenics for different reasons. This included progressives like Margaret Sanger, founder of the abortionist organization Planned Parenthood. The concept and practice became distasteful only around the time the Nazis adopted it with vigor. > The one you want Are the ones I linked to. Anyone who is aware of the concept of sterilization as applied to medical instruments and other daily use objects as well as reproductive systems of humans and animals can understand what the word means in relation to vaccines. This is why I don't have a high opinion of "science-worshipers." They mistakenly believe that unless you use the technical term "neutralizing antibody," you are an idiot who does not understand how vaccines work.
  - eesmith 5y ago
    You are correct that in this instance I was the first in this thread to use "sterilizing vaccine", after walterbell's use of "non-sterilizing vaccines". As I've commented, the qualifier 'non-sterilizing' does not appear useful or relevant, and is demonstrably distracting. It certainly made me think there was an earlier 'sterilizing' vaccine, which is why I asked for clarification of what was meant. I have pointed to several others who were similarly confused by the term, and pointed out that it is not a common term in the research literature. That makes us the idoits and you the science-worshiper. I must be an idiot as I can't figure out what "non-sterilizing" of medical instruments might mean, despite knowing what "sterilizing" of those instruments means. Based on your links, I think it means to add life or other biological agents like prions to a medical instrument. But that's not what 'non-sterilizing vaccine' means.
quantified 5y ago
Sterilization means “removes reproductive capability” in a medical and social context. Yes it has other meanings too. I can frighten many people by saying I’m going to give them a sterilizing anything.
- sinyug 5y ago
  You can use whichever phrase best represents the concept: "non-sterilizing vaccine," "leaky vaccine," "imperfect vaccine." What you should not do is lie, obfuscate or pretend that everything is hunky dory with the vaccine situation. That creates and feeds paranoia. Anyone who does that should then stop complaining about misinformation and conspiracy theories.

by sinyug 5y ago

eesmith 5y ago

> This sounds like a conspiracy theory Could you clarify? That is, I provided my references. More specifically, yes, I am claiming that some people spread false conspiracy theories about vaccines, including using "sterilizing vaccine". As supporting evidence I pointed to https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12529-013-9340-z https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12529-013-9340-z ("conspiracy theories ... with the hidden intention to exterminate part of the population" .. "sterilizing vaccine"). (Granted, in Romanian, so not using the exact phrase 'sterilizing vaccine'.) Is there something wrong with the evidence, or relevance to this thread? At the very least, my citations disprove the claim that "2021 consumer media is offering variable definitions", given that pre-2021 scholarly media also offers variable definitions. Your [2] refers to something different - "any process that removes, kills, or deactivates all forms of life". Your [3] refers to something different - "is any of a number of medical methods of birth control that intentionally leaves a person unable to reproduce." The one you want is the hyperlink used by your [1], to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sterilizing_immunity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sterilizing_immunity , which redirects to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutralizing_antibody https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutralizing_antibody . I think you've made my point. Yes, "everyone knows" about [2] and [3]. My references show people avoiding vaccines because of a belief that a given vaccine causes the sterility of [3], so since walterbell actually means [1], then my suggestion is to avoid "a highly technical term that only science-worshipers can understand" which is easily confused with [3] - a confusion that you, I, and others on HN have had! FWIW, the phrase "sterilizing vaccine" is not used in Wikipedia. https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?search=%22sterilizing+vaccine%22&title=Special:Search&profile=advanced&fulltext=1&ns0=1 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?search=%22sterilizing+v...

sinyug 5y ago
> "conspiracy theories ... with the hidden intention to exterminate part of the population" .. "sterilizing vaccine" walterbell didn't use the phrase "sterilizing vaccine." You did. He was talking about "non-sterilizing vaccines" which has a certain meaning in the context of vaccines and the spread of infectious diseases. That said, I can understand the fear among some people that the pandemic and the vaccine are being used as tools of population extermination. Coercive population control strategies have been used in different parts of the world for a long time. China is using them against the Uyghurs today. Malthusians and groups that advocate aggressive population control strategies exist even today. In early 20th century America, different groups and people across political lines supported the idea of eugenics for different reasons. This included progressives like Margaret Sanger, founder of the abortionist organization Planned Parenthood. The concept and practice became distasteful only around the time the Nazis adopted it with vigor. > The one you want Are the ones I linked to. Anyone who is aware of the concept of sterilization as applied to medical instruments and other daily use objects as well as reproductive systems of humans and animals can understand what the word means in relation to vaccines. This is why I don't have a high opinion of "science-worshipers." They mistakenly believe that unless you use the technical term "neutralizing antibody," you are an idiot who does not understand how vaccines work.
- eesmith 5y ago
  You are correct that in this instance I was the first in this thread to use "sterilizing vaccine", after walterbell's use of "non-sterilizing vaccines". As I've commented, the qualifier 'non-sterilizing' does not appear useful or relevant, and is demonstrably distracting. It certainly made me think there was an earlier 'sterilizing' vaccine, which is why I asked for clarification of what was meant. I have pointed to several others who were similarly confused by the term, and pointed out that it is not a common term in the research literature. That makes us the idoits and you the science-worshiper. I must be an idiot as I can't figure out what "non-sterilizing" of medical instruments might mean, despite knowing what "sterilizing" of those instruments means. Based on your links, I think it means to add life or other biological agents like prions to a medical instrument. But that's not what 'non-sterilizing vaccine' means.

quantified 5y ago

Sterilization means “removes reproductive capability” in a medical and social context. Yes it has other meanings too. I can frighten many people by saying I’m going to give them a sterilizing anything.

sinyug 5y ago
You can use whichever phrase best represents the concept: "non-sterilizing vaccine," "leaky vaccine," "imperfect vaccine." What you should not do is lie, obfuscate or pretend that everything is hunky dory with the vaccine situation. That creates and feeds paranoia. Anyone who does that should then stop complaining about misinformation and conspiracy theories.