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Here's my prediction for the future of the web: I think one of two possible scenarios will occur 1. Firefox fades into obscurity/irrelevance, Chromium becomes

Here's my prediction for the future of the web: I think one of two possible scenarios will occur 1. Firefox fades into obscurity/irrelevance, Chromium becomes the platform of the web, and thus Google dictates its future. 2. Firefox fades into obscurity/irrelevance, and Chromium still becomes the platform of the web, but anti-trust action is taken against Google with a result being that Chrome is spun off into its own entity independent of Google, and so while there's still a browser monoculture, that browser is developed by a relatively unbiased company. Of course in all of this there's always the foothold that Safari has that must be taken into consideration, particularly on iOS where users quite literally don't have the choice to use another browser (as iOS Chrome and friends still use WebKit under the hood).

nly 5y ago
Are there any good browsers with fast native UIs available for Windows based on WebKit proper (rather than Blink)?
- DeathArrow 5y ago
  From the list here[1] it seems there is no browser on Windows using Webkit. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_web_browsers#WebKit-based https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_web_browsers#WebKit-ba...
Croftengea 5y ago
> that browser is developed by a relatively unbiased company. This imaginary company will have bills to pay. What search business will cover that company's costs? :)
phendrenad2 5y ago
I think there's a third option: 3. Firefox fades into obscurity/irrelevance, Chromium becomes the platform of the web, people realize this and forks abound, and eventually someone makes it into an ECMA standard and Google de facto loses control of it. Oh also, another one: 4. The Linux Foundation or some other entity steps in and just builds a new GPL'd browser, which can mimic the success story of the Linux kernel (where the copyleft license will ensure that the vast number of open-source hackers prefer to contribute to it over something like the BSD-licensed Chromium).
- 5e92cb50239222b 5y ago
  > steps in and just builds a new GPL'd browser I am not sure that can realistically be done anymore. Take a look at this for some estimates: https://drewdevault.com/2020/03/18/Reckless-limitless-scope.html https://drewdevault.com/2020/03/18/Reckless-limitless-scope....
- jesseschalken 5y ago
  This is the ideal situation. Google already lacks control over all the Chromium forks, like Brave, Opera, Edge and ungoogled-chromium. They accept upstream patches voluntarily, and they can and do reject anything they disagree with. The shadier Google gets the more forks will reject upstream and instead share patches among themselves. As long as Chromium is open source I don't see what there is to worry about. We literally have the code. There's a lot to be gained by standardizing on Chromium as well. New features, improvements and optimizations only have to be implemented once instead of thrice, and developers only have to deal with bugs in one implementation instead of the union of bugs in all three.
  - rich_sasha 5y ago
    This is fine; but still it hurts me to think that an open protocol of HTTP[S] and friends is effectively accessed by a single client at core. Yeah it's wrapped with different toppings by different vendors, but deep inside it's one client. We're going from a world where we had IE, Google, Firefox and Safari as independent projects, we're going towards one with just one.
- Gualdrapo 5y ago
  > The Linux Foundation or some other entity steps in and just builds a new GPL'd browser The Linux Foundation was already given Servo (in late 2019 if memory is not failing me), the promising rendering engine Mozilla was working on. Which meant anyone who was working full time on it, is not right now. So there's even a new base to work with from the ground up if we wanted to.
  - truffdog 5y ago
CodeGlitch 5y ago
3. The Web becomes less relevant as Apps take over and become the primary way people use the Internet. Both Firefox and Chrome fade into obscurity. Everything is propriety and behind walled gardens. 4. The Zuckaverse becomes the primary way people interact with the Internet. Both Firefox and Chrome fade into obscurity. Everything is propriety and behind walled gardens.
- kvark 5y ago
  Rooting for (3) but it doesn't seem to be happening. Quite the opposite - more and more apps just wrap the browsers.
  - TranquilMarmot 5y ago
    I think this is because of how much effort it takes to make a truly native app on multiple platforms (iOS, Android, UWP) and then you probably have to make a web version anyway. There are a lot of tools for doing this these days (i.e. React Native, Flutter) but I get the impression that none of them _truly_ solve the problem and you can tell they're not REALLY native apps.

nly 5y ago

Are there any good browsers with fast native UIs available for Windows based on WebKit proper (rather than Blink)?

DeathArrow 5y ago
From the list here[1] it seems there is no browser on Windows using Webkit. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_web_browsers#WebKit-based https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_web_browsers#WebKit-ba...

Croftengea 5y ago

> that browser is developed by a relatively unbiased company. This imaginary company will have bills to pay. What search business will cover that company's costs? :)

phendrenad2 5y ago

I think there's a third option: 3. Firefox fades into obscurity/irrelevance, Chromium becomes the platform of the web, people realize this and forks abound, and eventually someone makes it into an ECMA standard and Google de facto loses control of it. Oh also, another one: 4. The Linux Foundation or some other entity steps in and just builds a new GPL'd browser, which can mimic the success story of the Linux kernel (where the copyleft license will ensure that the vast number of open-source hackers prefer to contribute to it over something like the BSD-licensed Chromium).

5e92cb50239222b 5y ago
> steps in and just builds a new GPL'd browser I am not sure that can realistically be done anymore. Take a look at this for some estimates: https://drewdevault.com/2020/03/18/Reckless-limitless-scope.html https://drewdevault.com/2020/03/18/Reckless-limitless-scope....
jesseschalken 5y ago
This is the ideal situation. Google already lacks control over all the Chromium forks, like Brave, Opera, Edge and ungoogled-chromium. They accept upstream patches voluntarily, and they can and do reject anything they disagree with. The shadier Google gets the more forks will reject upstream and instead share patches among themselves. As long as Chromium is open source I don't see what there is to worry about. We literally have the code. There's a lot to be gained by standardizing on Chromium as well. New features, improvements and optimizations only have to be implemented once instead of thrice, and developers only have to deal with bugs in one implementation instead of the union of bugs in all three.
- rich_sasha 5y ago
  This is fine; but still it hurts me to think that an open protocol of HTTP[S] and friends is effectively accessed by a single client at core. Yeah it's wrapped with different toppings by different vendors, but deep inside it's one client. We're going from a world where we had IE, Google, Firefox and Safari as independent projects, we're going towards one with just one.
Gualdrapo 5y ago
> The Linux Foundation or some other entity steps in and just builds a new GPL'd browser The Linux Foundation was already given Servo (in late 2019 if memory is not failing me), the promising rendering engine Mozilla was working on. Which meant anyone who was working full time on it, is not right now. So there's even a new base to work with from the ground up if we wanted to.
- truffdog 5y ago

CodeGlitch 5y ago

3. The Web becomes less relevant as Apps take over and become the primary way people use the Internet. Both Firefox and Chrome fade into obscurity. Everything is propriety and behind walled gardens. 4. The Zuckaverse becomes the primary way people interact with the Internet. Both Firefox and Chrome fade into obscurity. Everything is propriety and behind walled gardens.

kvark 5y ago
Rooting for (3) but it doesn't seem to be happening. Quite the opposite - more and more apps just wrap the browsers.
- TranquilMarmot 5y ago
  I think this is because of how much effort it takes to make a truly native app on multiple platforms (iOS, Android, UWP) and then you probably have to make a web version anyway. There are a lot of tools for doing this these days (i.e. React Native, Flutter) but I get the impression that none of them _truly_ solve the problem and you can tell they're not REALLY native apps.