4 ms·

That's not actually the truth. You can go to F-Droid, or Cydia, Amazon or one of the dozens of SEA app stores that exist. You have plenty of options. Your argu

That's not actually the truth. You can go to F-Droid, or Cydia, Amazon or one of the dozens of SEA app stores that exist. You have plenty of options. Your argument is basically that Wal-Mart is everywhere, so Wal-Mart should be forced to serve you on your terms.

saurik 5y ago
Epic is suing Google over direct and considered anti-competitive action preventing alternative stores from taking hold, and they might have a case. https://www.theverge.com/2021/8/19/22632804/epic-google-lawsuit-unredacted-complaint-antitrust https://www.theverge.com/2021/8/19/22632804/epic-google-laws... Meanwhile, you reference Cydia (my alternative to the App Store), but I am myself suing Apple for over their efforts to lock us out competing on iOS. https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/12/10/cydia-apple-lawsuit/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/12/10/cydia-a... https://cache.saurik.com/lawsuit/complaint.pdf https://cache.saurik.com/lawsuit/complaint.pdf
- megablast 5y ago
  Epic lost their lawsuit completely against Apple.
- sundvor 5y ago
  I used Cydia many a year ago (in 2009) when I had the iPhone 3GS. If I recall correctly, the root I had to apply to be able to get it installed also allowed me to get your backgrounder plus sbsettings mods - thus getting real multitasking working! It made my experience of owning my first (and last) iPhone so much better - thanks very much for that, always a fan. Iirc, I was also able to buy one or two apps there, but my memory may be hazy. I hope you're successful with your Apple lawsuit.
- metagame 5y ago
  I know Cydia's your thing (I'd recognize your username anywhere) and I have an infinite amount of respect for you because of it, but I think the status quo is probably fine. iOS is a minority of the market and "Do you know how to jailbreak your cell phone?" serves as a decent deterrent to stop clueless people from butchering themselves with too much freedom. It sounds really lame to say, but it feels like what you're suggesting is the exact opposite of what the market wants. People want a device they can give to their kid without worrying that they'll mess it up. And I don't think this is an issue where any side actually cares about freedom; you allow proprietary software on Cydia, which sort of kills the user freedom argument, but even then, people would still be free to just buy a phone that supports them using their phone in a way they want to.
  - iknowstuff 5y ago
    The sandbox protects the OS. Apps from different stores could remain sandboxed. In addition, parental controls could easily allow restricting the phone to the App Store.
  - heavyset_go 5y ago
    > It sounds really lame to say, but it feels like what you're suggesting is the exact opposite of what the market wants. If that's what the market wanted then Apple wouldn't have to spend so much money on preventing their customers from rooting their phones, running any apps they want to run and using alternative mobile app distribution methods. > People want a device they can give to their kid without worrying that they'll mess it up. Chromebooks are those devices, which is one of the reasons they're used in education. There were 40 million Chromebooks in public schools and about 53 million K-12 students in the US in 2019. You can run whatever Android or Linux software you want on them, and use whatever mobile app distribution you want, too, like F-Droid.
- heavyset_go 5y ago
  Any updates since that Washington Post article was published? Do you have a blog or something with press releases or updates about the case? I hope you get somewhere with the complaint.
- alisonkisk 5y ago
  What's the difference between "preventing" and "competing"? Did Google ever block an app store from phones?
realusername 5y ago
> That's not actually the truth. You can go to F-Droid, or Cydia, Amazon or one of the dozens of SEA app stores that exist. Is that sarcasm? All of those combined don't even have 0.5% of the market. There's no competition, period.
- threeseed 5y ago
  There is no competiton in countless situations when you narrowly define the scope. For example is there competition in the "operating system for Samsung microwaves" market ?
  - realusername 5y ago
    I'm not narrowing the scope, all of those combined together are at best less than one percent of all the mobile app market. They are negligible.
- com2kid 5y ago
  Amazon was a real player for awhile, but they stopped treating developers well and their app store started to lag behind. Back when the Amazon app store first started, they gave away a high quality free app every week. Great for user acquisition, then IIRC they stopped paying the app developers whose apps they were giving away, and the quality of the store overall started to drop off soon after. If Amazon had made a play of taking a much smaller % of payment fees, sales and subs, they could have continued building momentum and been a serious competitor. I presume they decided not to for some good reason, but the potential was there.
nextaccountic 5y ago
> Your argument is basically that Wal-Mart is everywhere, so Wal-Mart should be forced to serve you on your terms. If Wal-Mart had nearly the prevalence of Google Play (on Android) and the App Store (on iOS), it should probably have some cap on its cut, too.

saurik 5y ago

Epic is suing Google over direct and considered anti-competitive action preventing alternative stores from taking hold, and they might have a case. https://www.theverge.com/2021/8/19/22632804/epic-google-lawsuit-unredacted-complaint-antitrust https://www.theverge.com/2021/8/19/22632804/epic-google-laws... Meanwhile, you reference Cydia (my alternative to the App Store), but I am myself suing Apple for over their efforts to lock us out competing on iOS. https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/12/10/cydia-apple-lawsuit/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/12/10/cydia-a... https://cache.saurik.com/lawsuit/complaint.pdf https://cache.saurik.com/lawsuit/complaint.pdf

megablast 5y ago
Epic lost their lawsuit completely against Apple.
sundvor 5y ago
I used Cydia many a year ago (in 2009) when I had the iPhone 3GS. If I recall correctly, the root I had to apply to be able to get it installed also allowed me to get your backgrounder plus sbsettings mods - thus getting real multitasking working! It made my experience of owning my first (and last) iPhone so much better - thanks very much for that, always a fan. Iirc, I was also able to buy one or two apps there, but my memory may be hazy. I hope you're successful with your Apple lawsuit.
metagame 5y ago
I know Cydia's your thing (I'd recognize your username anywhere) and I have an infinite amount of respect for you because of it, but I think the status quo is probably fine. iOS is a minority of the market and "Do you know how to jailbreak your cell phone?" serves as a decent deterrent to stop clueless people from butchering themselves with too much freedom. It sounds really lame to say, but it feels like what you're suggesting is the exact opposite of what the market wants. People want a device they can give to their kid without worrying that they'll mess it up. And I don't think this is an issue where any side actually cares about freedom; you allow proprietary software on Cydia, which sort of kills the user freedom argument, but even then, people would still be free to just buy a phone that supports them using their phone in a way they want to.
- iknowstuff 5y ago
  The sandbox protects the OS. Apps from different stores could remain sandboxed. In addition, parental controls could easily allow restricting the phone to the App Store.
- heavyset_go 5y ago
  > It sounds really lame to say, but it feels like what you're suggesting is the exact opposite of what the market wants. If that's what the market wanted then Apple wouldn't have to spend so much money on preventing their customers from rooting their phones, running any apps they want to run and using alternative mobile app distribution methods. > People want a device they can give to their kid without worrying that they'll mess it up. Chromebooks are those devices, which is one of the reasons they're used in education. There were 40 million Chromebooks in public schools and about 53 million K-12 students in the US in 2019. You can run whatever Android or Linux software you want on them, and use whatever mobile app distribution you want, too, like F-Droid.
heavyset_go 5y ago
Any updates since that Washington Post article was published? Do you have a blog or something with press releases or updates about the case? I hope you get somewhere with the complaint.
alisonkisk 5y ago
What's the difference between "preventing" and "competing"? Did Google ever block an app store from phones?

realusername 5y ago

> That's not actually the truth. You can go to F-Droid, or Cydia, Amazon or one of the dozens of SEA app stores that exist. Is that sarcasm? All of those combined don't even have 0.5% of the market. There's no competition, period.

threeseed 5y ago
There is no competiton in countless situations when you narrowly define the scope. For example is there competition in the "operating system for Samsung microwaves" market ?
- realusername 5y ago
  I'm not narrowing the scope, all of those combined together are at best less than one percent of all the mobile app market. They are negligible.
com2kid 5y ago
Amazon was a real player for awhile, but they stopped treating developers well and their app store started to lag behind. Back when the Amazon app store first started, they gave away a high quality free app every week. Great for user acquisition, then IIRC they stopped paying the app developers whose apps they were giving away, and the quality of the store overall started to drop off soon after. If Amazon had made a play of taking a much smaller % of payment fees, sales and subs, they could have continued building momentum and been a serious competitor. I presume they decided not to for some good reason, but the potential was there.

nextaccountic 5y ago

> Your argument is basically that Wal-Mart is everywhere, so Wal-Mart should be forced to serve you on your terms. If Wal-Mart had nearly the prevalence of Google Play (on Android) and the App Store (on iOS), it should probably have some cap on its cut, too.