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If you’re not willing to put the safety of the civilians you serve above your own comfort, maybe you shouldn’t be a cop?

walterbell 5y ago
If you've kept the public safe for months before the existence of non-sterilizing vaccines, were infected and recovered from Covid while protecting said public, have long-lasting nasal immunity that exceeds the protection (note: not immunity) of intramuscular vaccines and blood/serum antibodies, perhaps you understand the meaning of "Put on your oxygen mask before trying to help others". From the CDC website, updated on October 15, https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/fully-vaccinated-guidance.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/fully-vac... > Based on evolving evidence, CDC recommends fully vaccinated people get tested 5-7 days after close contact with a person with suspected or confirmed COVID i.e. vaccination does not prevent infection or transmission. Those (including cops) who have recovered from Covid are statistically immune from infection and thus transmission. This is borne out by UK surveillance data of 5 million people who previously tested positive for Covid.
- eesmith 5y ago
  > non-sterilizing vaccines What does "sterilizing vaccine" mean? It triggers my FUD alarm and makes me think you're an anti-vaxxer, > were infected and recovered You think this 1/3rd of the police that refuses to state their vaccination status already had COVID? Where's your evidence? The article says nothing about this, and we know some cops have not had COVID and refuse the vaccination. > vaccination does not prevent infection or transmission I don't know of any vaccination which is 100% effective and which can prevent transmission. Your statement again sounds like anti-vaxxer FUD. > Those (including cops) who have recovered from Covid are statistically immune Your "statistically immune" is seems like anti-vaxxer FUD obscuring how having COVID "does not prevent infection or transmission". Eg https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/your-health/reinfection.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/your-health/reinfe... points out "Cases of reinfection with COVID-19 have been reported, but remain rare . " Those who have been vaccinated are also "statistically immune", and through a lower risk route.
  - walterbell 5y ago
    Here's a study of 900 Vietnamese healthcare workers, where 7% of vaccinated workers were infected, https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3897733 https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3897733 Recent UK medical data for the week of 7th Oct reports possible Covid reinfection in the range of 0.005% (narrowly defined as specific genetic sequence) to an upper estimate of ~1% of 5.9 million people, https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1023910/Weekly_Flu_and_COVID-19_report_w40_v2.pdf#page18 https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/... Comparing only these two examples, vaccinated people were infected by Covid at a rate somewhere between 7 times and 1000 times higher than those who previously recovered from Covid. As expected, the infected+vaccinated people did not suffer serious illness, because the vaccines provided protection against serious illness. > Those who have been vaccinated are also "statistically immune", and through a lower risk route This is a popular misconception that doctors, pharmaceutical companies and the CDC have attempted to correct, e.g. Sept 2021 CDC website clarification that vaccines provide "protection against serious illness" NOT immunity. Current, intramuscular Covid vaccines are explicitly stated by the CDC and manufacturers as NOT providing sterilizing immunity (which has a textbook definition). They provide protection via serum/blood antibodies, against serious illness. Recovery from Covid infection (of vax or unvax) provides nasal/mucosal immunity that can stop future infections in the upper respiratory tract. Future nasal Covid vaccines may provide sterilizing immunity, but current injections into the deltoid muscle do not. > You think this 1/3rd of the police that refuses to state their vaccination status already had COVID? Where's your evidence? We know that Covid swept through dense, urban areas like Chicago, Los Angeles and New York, infecting large segments of the population, especially essential workers like police, firefighters, paramedics and healthcare workers who served the public in the challenging year of 2020. If an essential worker was exposed for nine months, including the peak periods of infection and transmission, and was not knowingly infected, they could have been asymptomatically infected. Those who worked from home and avoided infection should avoid projecting their own experience onto those who kept them safe in 2020.
    - eesmith 5y ago
      You answered none of my objections. How many of the Chicago police who refuse to reveal their vaccination status have NOT HAD COVID? > As you can see ... Yes, we know that "The AZD1222 vaccine against COVID-19 has an efficacy of 63.09% against symptomatic SARS-CoV-2 infection." - quoting https://www.who.int/news-room/feature-stories/detail/the-oxford-astrazeneca-covid-19-vaccine-what-you-need-to-know https://www.who.int/news-room/feature-stories/detail/the-oxf... . So of course we expect some people who have had the vaccine to still get infected. What is your actual point? You want to quote studies? Here's https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7032e1.htm?s_cid=mm7032e1_w https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7032e1.htm?s_cid=mm... titled "Reduced Risk of Reinfection with SARS-CoV-2 After COVID-19 Vaccination — Kentucky, May–June 2021" ] Among Kentucky residents infected with SARS-CoV-2 in 2020, vaccination status of those reinfected during May–June 2021 was compared with that of residents who were not reinfected. In this case-control study, being unvaccinated was associated with 2.34 times the odds of reinfection compared with being fully vaccinated. If you have COVID, get vaccinated, and you're even less likely to get COVID again. > We know that Covid swept ... What does "swept" mean? Was it 30% of the police force? Was it the same 30% of the police force that do not want to reveal their vaccination status? Or did all of the police who got infected also get vaccinated, so only the anti-vaxxers are resisting? Where is your evidence that your argument is even relevant to this topic?

walterbell 5y ago

If you've kept the public safe for months before the existence of non-sterilizing vaccines, were infected and recovered from Covid while protecting said public, have long-lasting nasal immunity that exceeds the protection (note: not immunity) of intramuscular vaccines and blood/serum antibodies, perhaps you understand the meaning of "Put on your oxygen mask before trying to help others". From the CDC website, updated on October 15, https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/fully-vaccinated-guidance.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/fully-vac... > Based on evolving evidence, CDC recommends fully vaccinated people get tested 5-7 days after close contact with a person with suspected or confirmed COVID i.e. vaccination does not prevent infection or transmission. Those (including cops) who have recovered from Covid are statistically immune from infection and thus transmission. This is borne out by UK surveillance data of 5 million people who previously tested positive for Covid.

eesmith 5y ago
> non-sterilizing vaccines What does "sterilizing vaccine" mean? It triggers my FUD alarm and makes me think you're an anti-vaxxer, > were infected and recovered You think this 1/3rd of the police that refuses to state their vaccination status already had COVID? Where's your evidence? The article says nothing about this, and we know some cops have not had COVID and refuse the vaccination. > vaccination does not prevent infection or transmission I don't know of any vaccination which is 100% effective and which can prevent transmission. Your statement again sounds like anti-vaxxer FUD. > Those (including cops) who have recovered from Covid are statistically immune Your "statistically immune" is seems like anti-vaxxer FUD obscuring how having COVID "does not prevent infection or transmission". Eg https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/your-health/reinfection.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/your-health/reinfe... points out "Cases of reinfection with COVID-19 have been reported, but remain rare . " Those who have been vaccinated are also "statistically immune", and through a lower risk route.
- walterbell 5y ago
  Here's a study of 900 Vietnamese healthcare workers, where 7% of vaccinated workers were infected, https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3897733 https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3897733 Recent UK medical data for the week of 7th Oct reports possible Covid reinfection in the range of 0.005% (narrowly defined as specific genetic sequence) to an upper estimate of ~1% of 5.9 million people, https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1023910/Weekly_Flu_and_COVID-19_report_w40_v2.pdf#page18 https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/... Comparing only these two examples, vaccinated people were infected by Covid at a rate somewhere between 7 times and 1000 times higher than those who previously recovered from Covid. As expected, the infected+vaccinated people did not suffer serious illness, because the vaccines provided protection against serious illness. > Those who have been vaccinated are also "statistically immune", and through a lower risk route This is a popular misconception that doctors, pharmaceutical companies and the CDC have attempted to correct, e.g. Sept 2021 CDC website clarification that vaccines provide "protection against serious illness" NOT immunity. Current, intramuscular Covid vaccines are explicitly stated by the CDC and manufacturers as NOT providing sterilizing immunity (which has a textbook definition). They provide protection via serum/blood antibodies, against serious illness. Recovery from Covid infection (of vax or unvax) provides nasal/mucosal immunity that can stop future infections in the upper respiratory tract. Future nasal Covid vaccines may provide sterilizing immunity, but current injections into the deltoid muscle do not. > You think this 1/3rd of the police that refuses to state their vaccination status already had COVID? Where's your evidence? We know that Covid swept through dense, urban areas like Chicago, Los Angeles and New York, infecting large segments of the population, especially essential workers like police, firefighters, paramedics and healthcare workers who served the public in the challenging year of 2020. If an essential worker was exposed for nine months, including the peak periods of infection and transmission, and was not knowingly infected, they could have been asymptomatically infected. Those who worked from home and avoided infection should avoid projecting their own experience onto those who kept them safe in 2020.
  - eesmith 5y ago
    You answered none of my objections. How many of the Chicago police who refuse to reveal their vaccination status have NOT HAD COVID? > As you can see ... Yes, we know that "The AZD1222 vaccine against COVID-19 has an efficacy of 63.09% against symptomatic SARS-CoV-2 infection." - quoting https://www.who.int/news-room/feature-stories/detail/the-oxford-astrazeneca-covid-19-vaccine-what-you-need-to-know https://www.who.int/news-room/feature-stories/detail/the-oxf... . So of course we expect some people who have had the vaccine to still get infected. What is your actual point? You want to quote studies? Here's https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7032e1.htm?s_cid=mm7032e1_w https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7032e1.htm?s_cid=mm... titled "Reduced Risk of Reinfection with SARS-CoV-2 After COVID-19 Vaccination — Kentucky, May–June 2021" ] Among Kentucky residents infected with SARS-CoV-2 in 2020, vaccination status of those reinfected during May–June 2021 was compared with that of residents who were not reinfected. In this case-control study, being unvaccinated was associated with 2.34 times the odds of reinfection compared with being fully vaccinated. If you have COVID, get vaccinated, and you're even less likely to get COVID again. > We know that Covid swept ... What does "swept" mean? Was it 30% of the police force? Was it the same 30% of the police force that do not want to reveal their vaccination status? Or did all of the police who got infected also get vaccinated, so only the anti-vaxxers are resisting? Where is your evidence that your argument is even relevant to this topic?