4 ms·

Ask HN: Is Humanity a Superorganism?

2 points by desertraven 5y ago

ksaj 5y ago
If you are interested in this subject, I think the free courses offered online from Santa Fe Institute, under the name Complexity Explorer will really interest you. I took their Origins of Life course and consider it to be one of the best courses I've taken for any subject. It answers your question from the point of several different kinds of scientists - different practices, from chemistry, to astronomy, to geology, etc. They just started a new session of that course, but you're probably not too late to start it. And they have a lot of other courses (a lot of which are free) along the same theme. If anything, you'll come out with even more questions, but they'll be really complex questions. https://www.complexityexplorer.org/ https://www.complexityexplorer.org/
kushan2020 5y ago
Imo, one of the hallmarks of superoganism is the propensity to sacrifice ones existence for the survival of the superorganism. Humanity in this sense fails this test because of a strong sense of individualism amongst us. I do believe we do have a bunch tribal behaviour up our sleeves, but it pales in comparison to what other superoganisms have developed over millions of years of evolution.
- ksaj 5y ago
  You are confusing the mind-trick "wisdom of the masses" with "superorganism." They aren't the same. Mankind is a superorganism, at least as far as the planet is concerned. Look at the Earth and what Humans are doing to it. No moral judgements, just the provable. On the grand scheme, human populations have mastered all the points on any given "what is life?" list. We consume, reproduce, excrete (the big problem we have as a population now... pollution!) etc. Look at how a single organism changes life in a Petri dish. Find the differences. Can you tell where the singular and the group functions become separate and distinct?
  - kushan2020 5y ago
    You response is appropriate for a certain kind of definition of "superorganism". To me ants define what a superogranism mean. > Look at the Earth and what Humans are doing to it. No moral judgements, just the provable I am not a 100% sure but it seems you are implying about the destructive nature of humankind on the planet earth. That characteristic is not what defines a group of organisms from a superorganism.
    - ksaj 5y ago
      > I am not a 100% sure but it seems you are implying about the destructive nature of humankind on the planet earth. I wasn't, unless it's how all of life is meant to be described. Take any definition of life (which is basically synonymous with an organism when you seek a representative individual) and then consider any list of the requirements of life, and you can't miss that the whole human population and individuals are barely distinguishable when it comes to those definitions of life. We don't just walk (motility). As a species, we also build things and fly as a species to space. That's an example of where humans as a population meet one of the criteria of being a superorganism. Ants satisfy the various requirements in pretty much exactly the same way. Ever seen them make an ant raft and float out the flood. Some of them die, but the ones that don't keep going. Our space travels will be a lot like that. We just made robots to do most of the dying part first.
- aops 5y ago
  I think scarifice in the chimp troupe is just more effecient thanks to the chimp brain. We dont have to act as dumb as an ant colony.
fuzzfactor 5y ago
More like a superdisorganizm.
aops 5y ago
This is a nice take about the coordination problem - https://www.edge.org/response-detail/10464 https://www.edge.org/response-detail/10464 6 billion chimps brains dont really get into "sync" so easily because of huge variation in types of intelligence, learning rates, personality types, needs, resource availability etc. That doesnt mean its not possible. We already see enough evidence how fast it is to get a whole bunch of chimps to believe bullshit, and perform the same behavior repeatedly without too much questioning and thought. In that sense we already look like an ant colony. Social media, wall st, video games have shown us you can scale it up to the hundred million mark (talking about the number of people given the same info perform the same behavior). In the past religions and empire took centuries to do the same. So its just a matter of time to push it to the billions but its going to be in fits and starts due to difference in people stated above. Also Nature show us its possible to keep the 20 billion neurons with 1 trillion connection in our head in sync long enough to inject beauty into the universe. So anything is possible.

2 points by desertraven 5y ago

ksaj 5y ago

If you are interested in this subject, I think the free courses offered online from Santa Fe Institute, under the name Complexity Explorer will really interest you. I took their Origins of Life course and consider it to be one of the best courses I've taken for any subject. It answers your question from the point of several different kinds of scientists - different practices, from chemistry, to astronomy, to geology, etc. They just started a new session of that course, but you're probably not too late to start it. And they have a lot of other courses (a lot of which are free) along the same theme. If anything, you'll come out with even more questions, but they'll be really complex questions. https://www.complexityexplorer.org/ https://www.complexityexplorer.org/

kushan2020 5y ago

Imo, one of the hallmarks of superoganism is the propensity to sacrifice ones existence for the survival of the superorganism. Humanity in this sense fails this test because of a strong sense of individualism amongst us. I do believe we do have a bunch tribal behaviour up our sleeves, but it pales in comparison to what other superoganisms have developed over millions of years of evolution.

ksaj 5y ago
You are confusing the mind-trick "wisdom of the masses" with "superorganism." They aren't the same. Mankind is a superorganism, at least as far as the planet is concerned. Look at the Earth and what Humans are doing to it. No moral judgements, just the provable. On the grand scheme, human populations have mastered all the points on any given "what is life?" list. We consume, reproduce, excrete (the big problem we have as a population now... pollution!) etc. Look at how a single organism changes life in a Petri dish. Find the differences. Can you tell where the singular and the group functions become separate and distinct?
- kushan2020 5y ago
  You response is appropriate for a certain kind of definition of "superorganism". To me ants define what a superogranism mean. > Look at the Earth and what Humans are doing to it. No moral judgements, just the provable I am not a 100% sure but it seems you are implying about the destructive nature of humankind on the planet earth. That characteristic is not what defines a group of organisms from a superorganism.
  - ksaj 5y ago
    > I am not a 100% sure but it seems you are implying about the destructive nature of humankind on the planet earth. I wasn't, unless it's how all of life is meant to be described. Take any definition of life (which is basically synonymous with an organism when you seek a representative individual) and then consider any list of the requirements of life, and you can't miss that the whole human population and individuals are barely distinguishable when it comes to those definitions of life. We don't just walk (motility). As a species, we also build things and fly as a species to space. That's an example of where humans as a population meet one of the criteria of being a superorganism. Ants satisfy the various requirements in pretty much exactly the same way. Ever seen them make an ant raft and float out the flood. Some of them die, but the ones that don't keep going. Our space travels will be a lot like that. We just made robots to do most of the dying part first.
aops 5y ago
I think scarifice in the chimp troupe is just more effecient thanks to the chimp brain. We dont have to act as dumb as an ant colony.

fuzzfactor 5y ago

More like a superdisorganizm.

aops 5y ago

This is a nice take about the coordination problem - https://www.edge.org/response-detail/10464 https://www.edge.org/response-detail/10464 6 billion chimps brains dont really get into "sync" so easily because of huge variation in types of intelligence, learning rates, personality types, needs, resource availability etc. That doesnt mean its not possible. We already see enough evidence how fast it is to get a whole bunch of chimps to believe bullshit, and perform the same behavior repeatedly without too much questioning and thought. In that sense we already look like an ant colony. Social media, wall st, video games have shown us you can scale it up to the hundred million mark (talking about the number of people given the same info perform the same behavior). In the past religions and empire took centuries to do the same. So its just a matter of time to push it to the billions but its going to be in fits and starts due to difference in people stated above. Also Nature show us its possible to keep the 20 billion neurons with 1 trillion connection in our head in sync long enough to inject beauty into the universe. So anything is possible.