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LiFePO4 has lower energy density and it's way more durable. Both properties go against the throw-away culture. (Hand held) Tool industry thrives on selling batt

by xxs 5y ago

LiFePO4 has lower energy density and it's way more durable. Both properties go against the throw-away culture. (Hand held) Tool industry thrives on selling battery packs - every single brand has its own battery lock-in to boot as well. Phones often get disposed once their battery capacity diminishes.

jacquesm 5y ago
High time for some regulation here, if we can standardize charger plugs then we can standardize battery packs, the amount of waste on account of all this purposeful incompatibility is staggering. All it would take is an agreed upon form factor, charger and available voltages (say: 18, 36, 48 or the nearest equivalent) and we'd save many, many tons of hard to recycle materials every year. Bonus points if there would be a mandatory way to replace the individual cells so that only they and not the pack would have to be replaced when and if the cells wear out.
- hyperpallium2 5y ago
  The only reason I've stopped using a phone is the battery. I agree regulation is the answer - and becoming an easier argument as phone improvements slow. Meanwhile, it seems it shouldn't be too hard to make a universal adapter (provided you can access the battery).
gruez 5y ago
You're implying that there's some sort of conspiracy to keep LiFePO4 out, because it goes against "throw-away culture". If that's true, why aren't we stuck using NiCd batteries today? Surely a battery with memory effects[1] would be even better for "throw-away culture" than lithium batteries than can be arbitrarily charged/discharged for a few hundred cycles? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel%E2%80%93cadmium_battery#Memory_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel%E2%80%93cadmium_battery...
- xxs 5y ago
  You dismissed the part where the energy density/capacity/current draw is way better of Li-Ion compared to NiCd or even NiMh. Needless to say that cadmium is toxic and the use of NiCd battery is heavily restricted in the EU.

by xxs 5y ago

jacquesm 5y ago

High time for some regulation here, if we can standardize charger plugs then we can standardize battery packs, the amount of waste on account of all this purposeful incompatibility is staggering. All it would take is an agreed upon form factor, charger and available voltages (say: 18, 36, 48 or the nearest equivalent) and we'd save many, many tons of hard to recycle materials every year. Bonus points if there would be a mandatory way to replace the individual cells so that only they and not the pack would have to be replaced when and if the cells wear out.

hyperpallium2 5y ago
The only reason I've stopped using a phone is the battery. I agree regulation is the answer - and becoming an easier argument as phone improvements slow. Meanwhile, it seems it shouldn't be too hard to make a universal adapter (provided you can access the battery).

gruez 5y ago

You're implying that there's some sort of conspiracy to keep LiFePO4 out, because it goes against "throw-away culture". If that's true, why aren't we stuck using NiCd batteries today? Surely a battery with memory effects[1] would be even better for "throw-away culture" than lithium batteries than can be arbitrarily charged/discharged for a few hundred cycles? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel%E2%80%93cadmium_battery#Memory_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel%E2%80%93cadmium_battery...

xxs 5y ago
You dismissed the part where the energy density/capacity/current draw is way better of Li-Ion compared to NiCd or even NiMh. Needless to say that cadmium is toxic and the use of NiCd battery is heavily restricted in the EU.