5 ms·

Iron based batteries also remove cobalt and nickel requirements, making them less environmental and politically difficult. Anything to make EVs more mainstream

by r00fus 5y ago

Iron based batteries also remove cobalt and nickel requirements, making them less environmental and politically difficult. Anything to make EVs more mainstream has my interest.

sudosysgen 5y ago
Absolutely, it's a big part of why they're cheaper. I just wish I could actually get them for reasonable prices in smaller quantities. I have to pay a 3-5x premium for LiFePO4 batteries. I'd love some at a reasonable premium for my ebike :)
- dylan604 5y ago
  eBike batteries are as unique as all of the power tool ones so that they are all different. what's your approach to housing and connecting your DIY battery for your make/model? i just recently became an eBike owner as well, and a second battery pack is 1/3 the price of the bike.
  - sudosysgen 5y ago
    I built my own ebike. I can basically make the battery pack into any shape I want. Right now I run 14s10p 18650s - it cost me 200$ to make and it has as much capacity as 3000$ worth of Bosch powerpacks. Secondary battery packs are so expensive because of DRM and lack of interoperability. I could make for 100$ a battery pack that Bosch sells for 900$. You're really not paying for the cells. Power tool batteries aren't really unique either btw. The shape is slightly different but they're all just 2p-3p 18650s with basic slot connectors.
    - dylan604 5y ago
      I don't care what is on the inside of the battery itself if the shape of the battery doesn't fit what I want to use it. I'm pretty sure this is everyone's definition of unique battery per vendor.
      - sudosysgen 5y ago
        Well you should - the fact they're pretty much electrically identical means that you can confidently buy off-brand batteries if they have good cells and that adapters can be possible.
        dylan604 5y ago
        I think you're missing the point focused on your point. We all understand the internals are probably coming from the same factory line. The problem is that they don't connect universally. As someone up the chain elsewhere stated, if the markets can be forced to use the same USB charging port, there should be a similar regulation for these kinds of things as well. Whether that's a universal battery shape/connector for tools, eBikes, whatever. We've unified things like 110v mains plugs, 220v mains, etc. The fact that they do all use the same internals makes this even more egregious.
        sudosysgen 5y ago
        The internals are completely interchangeable. You'll even find the same model with different internals. I agree with you 100% about the need for regulation.
  - jacquesm 5y ago
    What drivetrain does your bike have? I have a ton of documentation on the Bosch system. And I'm working on an extended range pack (2000 Wh, the bike is a speed pedelec doing 30 mph).
    - dylan604 5y ago
      Couldn't tell you. The website doesn't list that level of detail. It's a 750W motor. It took me 6 weeks after ordering before it shipped due to "global supply chain" blah blah excuses. It is serving me quite nicely without those kinds of mods. I'm not looking to set any speed records. Just needed something to help me get up the damn hills when I have a load of stuff. It does that better than hoped, so I'm happy.
      - jacquesm 5y ago
        Neat :) Bafang is one of the larger suppliers. Keep an eye out on the temperature of the FETs in your motor controller, that tends to be the weak point for more powerful motors, 750W is a lot of power for an e-bike, mine only has 350 but it is 'street legal' and insured, if I would hack that it would become a liability. Since I have an e-bike my car has hardly moved. Do you have a link for your bike? Mine is a Riese & Mueller 'Charger', a 2016 model. https://www.pedelecforum.de/forum/index.php?attachments/uk_20190614_0014066-jpg.254500/ https://www.pedelecforum.de/forum/index.php?attachments/uk_2... The battery pack is quite anemic (500 Wh), so I'm building a much larger one, I do 130 Km round trips with some regularity (twice per week) and it takes two of those fully charged to fully discharged; and then recharged at the destination which is effectively murdering them, hence the need for a larger battery. A single pack has about 35 Km range. I want to be able to do the trip one-way on 80% full to 20%, which I've worked out to about 1000 Wh plus some reserve. The pack will likely be 160 cells, which is pretty heavy for an e-bike, but the frame has enough room for this. Currently figuring out how to hook it all up and how to fool the controller in the motor to believe that my oversized battery is a genuine Bosch product without letting out the magic smoke from the toy level balancing unit in the BMS.
        dylan604 5y ago
- jacquesm 5y ago
  Some pretty good deals here: https://www.nkon.nl/rechargeable/li-ion/chemie/lifepo4.html https://www.nkon.nl/rechargeable/li-ion/chemie/lifepo4.html
  - sudosysgen 5y ago
    Hmm, it's better than others, but I can still find Li-ion for a better price. Besides, I'm outside of the EU, I can't imagine the shipping costs haha
    - jacquesm 5y ago
      Ah yes, that complicates matters considerably. And true, Li-Ion is still a better price (and higher density to boot). But it's worth monitoring this because at some point there will be a crossover.
      - sudosysgen 5y ago
        Indeed there will be. In North America, batteryhookup.com has A123, Headway and CATL cells at a pretty okay price. The CATL cells still aren't worth it IMO, but the Headway LiFePO4 cells can push a ridiculous amount of current, something like 200A from a single cell.
        jacquesm 5y ago
        Yes, they're crazy. Batteryhookup is an interesting company, they're very well known in the homebrew powerwall scene. Here's to hoping that the next battery revolution will come in on time and that we'll see some real economies of scale here.

by r00fus 5y ago

Iron based batteries also remove cobalt and nickel requirements, making them less environmental and politically difficult. Anything to make EVs more mainstream has my interest.

sudosysgen 5y ago

Absolutely, it's a big part of why they're cheaper. I just wish I could actually get them for reasonable prices in smaller quantities. I have to pay a 3-5x premium for LiFePO4 batteries. I'd love some at a reasonable premium for my ebike :)

dylan604 5y ago
eBike batteries are as unique as all of the power tool ones so that they are all different. what's your approach to housing and connecting your DIY battery for your make/model? i just recently became an eBike owner as well, and a second battery pack is 1/3 the price of the bike.
- sudosysgen 5y ago
  I built my own ebike. I can basically make the battery pack into any shape I want. Right now I run 14s10p 18650s - it cost me 200$ to make and it has as much capacity as 3000$ worth of Bosch powerpacks. Secondary battery packs are so expensive because of DRM and lack of interoperability. I could make for 100$ a battery pack that Bosch sells for 900$. You're really not paying for the cells. Power tool batteries aren't really unique either btw. The shape is slightly different but they're all just 2p-3p 18650s with basic slot connectors.
  - dylan604 5y ago
    I don't care what is on the inside of the battery itself if the shape of the battery doesn't fit what I want to use it. I'm pretty sure this is everyone's definition of unique battery per vendor.
    - sudosysgen 5y ago
      Well you should - the fact they're pretty much electrically identical means that you can confidently buy off-brand batteries if they have good cells and that adapters can be possible.
      - dylan604 5y ago
        I think you're missing the point focused on your point. We all understand the internals are probably coming from the same factory line. The problem is that they don't connect universally. As someone up the chain elsewhere stated, if the markets can be forced to use the same USB charging port, there should be a similar regulation for these kinds of things as well. Whether that's a universal battery shape/connector for tools, eBikes, whatever. We've unified things like 110v mains plugs, 220v mains, etc. The fact that they do all use the same internals makes this even more egregious.
        sudosysgen 5y ago
        The internals are completely interchangeable. You'll even find the same model with different internals. I agree with you 100% about the need for regulation.
- jacquesm 5y ago
  What drivetrain does your bike have? I have a ton of documentation on the Bosch system. And I'm working on an extended range pack (2000 Wh, the bike is a speed pedelec doing 30 mph).
  - dylan604 5y ago
    Couldn't tell you. The website doesn't list that level of detail. It's a 750W motor. It took me 6 weeks after ordering before it shipped due to "global supply chain" blah blah excuses. It is serving me quite nicely without those kinds of mods. I'm not looking to set any speed records. Just needed something to help me get up the damn hills when I have a load of stuff. It does that better than hoped, so I'm happy.
    - jacquesm 5y ago
      Neat :) Bafang is one of the larger suppliers. Keep an eye out on the temperature of the FETs in your motor controller, that tends to be the weak point for more powerful motors, 750W is a lot of power for an e-bike, mine only has 350 but it is 'street legal' and insured, if I would hack that it would become a liability. Since I have an e-bike my car has hardly moved. Do you have a link for your bike? Mine is a Riese & Mueller 'Charger', a 2016 model. https://www.pedelecforum.de/forum/index.php?attachments/uk_20190614_0014066-jpg.254500/ https://www.pedelecforum.de/forum/index.php?attachments/uk_2... The battery pack is quite anemic (500 Wh), so I'm building a much larger one, I do 130 Km round trips with some regularity (twice per week) and it takes two of those fully charged to fully discharged; and then recharged at the destination which is effectively murdering them, hence the need for a larger battery. A single pack has about 35 Km range. I want to be able to do the trip one-way on 80% full to 20%, which I've worked out to about 1000 Wh plus some reserve. The pack will likely be 160 cells, which is pretty heavy for an e-bike, but the frame has enough room for this. Currently figuring out how to hook it all up and how to fool the controller in the motor to believe that my oversized battery is a genuine Bosch product without letting out the magic smoke from the toy level balancing unit in the BMS.
      - dylan604 5y ago
jacquesm 5y ago
Some pretty good deals here: https://www.nkon.nl/rechargeable/li-ion/chemie/lifepo4.html https://www.nkon.nl/rechargeable/li-ion/chemie/lifepo4.html
- sudosysgen 5y ago
  Hmm, it's better than others, but I can still find Li-ion for a better price. Besides, I'm outside of the EU, I can't imagine the shipping costs haha
  - jacquesm 5y ago
    Ah yes, that complicates matters considerably. And true, Li-Ion is still a better price (and higher density to boot). But it's worth monitoring this because at some point there will be a crossover.
    - sudosysgen 5y ago
      Indeed there will be. In North America, batteryhookup.com has A123, Headway and CATL cells at a pretty okay price. The CATL cells still aren't worth it IMO, but the Headway LiFePO4 cells can push a ridiculous amount of current, something like 200A from a single cell.
      - jacquesm 5y ago
        Yes, they're crazy. Batteryhookup is an interesting company, they're very well known in the homebrew powerwall scene. Here's to hoping that the next battery revolution will come in on time and that we'll see some real economies of scale here.