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> sheer chance and lucky circumstances. LOL, dualism moment. There is no "you" outside of your genetics and the socialization you experienced. There is definit

> sheer chance and lucky circumstances. LOL, dualism moment. There is no "you" outside of your genetics and the socialization you experienced. There is definitely some luck involved, but also you're the product of a lot more work and planning than you give yourself credit for.

mywittyname 5y ago
> you're the product of a lot more work and planning than you give yourself credit for. Some people are lucky enough to have parents/family that handle this planning for us at young ages, knowing we will benefit in the future.
- ogre_magi 5y ago
  Do you think you were “lucky” not to be a mosquito? Do you think you were “lucky” not to be a 100kg mass of disconnected plasma inside the sun? This doesn’t make any sense. There are different processes in our universe that produce different things, from plasma to rocks to mosquitos to unsuccessful people to successful people. These processes are different, and their outputs are not fungible. There’s no luck. There’s no sense in which “you” could have been anything except what you are.
  - ahevia 5y ago
    I mean. When folks use the term luck they often just use to express gratitude. Whether that’s to the void or to their god. It’s weird to point out the usage here. Sure someone can say “I’m grateful the insane probabilities of every small detail that led to today collapsed on me living a good life”, but it’s easier to just say “I’m so lucky”. > There’s no sense in which “you” could have been anything except what you are. Perhaps yea, this feels tangential to the argument there is no free will and the universe is 100% deterministic. Maybe I’m reading too much into your comment, but for my lived experience. It certainly doesn’t feel that I was 100% destined to end up here. Im sure others feel the same way that their circumstances were never predetermined.
    - Jensson 5y ago
      That isn't how people usually view luck. If someone says "My success was all luck!", people wouldn't assume that this guy was lucky to be born smart and hard working and therefore worked his ass off to achieve his results with no particularly lucky event happening past his birth. No, they'd assume something like, the guy next to him at a buss stop happened to be this rich businessman and just happened to need something right now, and then that lead to more similar events and now he is the CEO of a big multi national corporation.
      - cm2012 5y ago
        Its not how people usually perceive luck, but its a more accurate way of perceiving luck IMO.
  - exolymph 5y ago
    That's the luck, happening to be who you are. Other people happen to be who they are, and that's their luck. Luck = fate
ogre_magi 5y ago
Reading this comment was really important to me. I encounter this “luck” argument that implies dualism, of a self separate from biology and life experience that could have somehow existed in a different body, all the time. And until I read this comment I felt like I was the only person who found that idea specious.
wlg 5y ago
Dualism is a theory in philosophy of mind, not in personal identity. It doesn't have any opinion about who "you" are, so it doesn't have any opinion on the counterfactual "But for luck, I could have been less smart." It sounds like what you really mean is something like a psychological continuity (identity is having psychological continuity) or animalist (identity is being the same human animal) view, which are both consistent with some mental characteristics (like intelligence) being accidental to who we are.
cm2012 5y ago
The propensity to work hard and be good at planning is just as heritable as IQ. The extent to which you can defer current pleasure for future gain is basically established by the time you're 6 years old, so reaping the benefits of it as an adult is luck. In another way, yes hard work and good planning is vital to success. But you shouldn't pat yourself on the back too hard for it, and you shouldn't think of yourself morally better than anyone else for it. (This isn't sour grapes from me. I'm successful and worked incredibly hard for years without much money.)

mywittyname 5y ago

> you're the product of a lot more work and planning than you give yourself credit for. Some people are lucky enough to have parents/family that handle this planning for us at young ages, knowing we will benefit in the future.

ogre_magi 5y ago
Do you think you were “lucky” not to be a mosquito? Do you think you were “lucky” not to be a 100kg mass of disconnected plasma inside the sun? This doesn’t make any sense. There are different processes in our universe that produce different things, from plasma to rocks to mosquitos to unsuccessful people to successful people. These processes are different, and their outputs are not fungible. There’s no luck. There’s no sense in which “you” could have been anything except what you are.
- ahevia 5y ago
  I mean. When folks use the term luck they often just use to express gratitude. Whether that’s to the void or to their god. It’s weird to point out the usage here. Sure someone can say “I’m grateful the insane probabilities of every small detail that led to today collapsed on me living a good life”, but it’s easier to just say “I’m so lucky”. > There’s no sense in which “you” could have been anything except what you are. Perhaps yea, this feels tangential to the argument there is no free will and the universe is 100% deterministic. Maybe I’m reading too much into your comment, but for my lived experience. It certainly doesn’t feel that I was 100% destined to end up here. Im sure others feel the same way that their circumstances were never predetermined.
  - Jensson 5y ago
    That isn't how people usually view luck. If someone says "My success was all luck!", people wouldn't assume that this guy was lucky to be born smart and hard working and therefore worked his ass off to achieve his results with no particularly lucky event happening past his birth. No, they'd assume something like, the guy next to him at a buss stop happened to be this rich businessman and just happened to need something right now, and then that lead to more similar events and now he is the CEO of a big multi national corporation.
    - cm2012 5y ago
      Its not how people usually perceive luck, but its a more accurate way of perceiving luck IMO.
- exolymph 5y ago
  That's the luck, happening to be who you are. Other people happen to be who they are, and that's their luck. Luck = fate

ogre_magi 5y ago

Reading this comment was really important to me. I encounter this “luck” argument that implies dualism, of a self separate from biology and life experience that could have somehow existed in a different body, all the time. And until I read this comment I felt like I was the only person who found that idea specious.

wlg 5y ago

Dualism is a theory in philosophy of mind, not in personal identity. It doesn't have any opinion about who "you" are, so it doesn't have any opinion on the counterfactual "But for luck, I could have been less smart." It sounds like what you really mean is something like a psychological continuity (identity is having psychological continuity) or animalist (identity is being the same human animal) view, which are both consistent with some mental characteristics (like intelligence) being accidental to who we are.

cm2012 5y ago

The propensity to work hard and be good at planning is just as heritable as IQ. The extent to which you can defer current pleasure for future gain is basically established by the time you're 6 years old, so reaping the benefits of it as an adult is luck. In another way, yes hard work and good planning is vital to success. But you shouldn't pat yourself on the back too hard for it, and you shouldn't think of yourself morally better than anyone else for it. (This isn't sour grapes from me. I'm successful and worked incredibly hard for years without much money.)