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> The "left" that has power in the US (establishment dems) barely qualify as being left at all You seem to interpret that statement as an opinion, but it is no

> The "left" that has power in the US (establishment dems) barely qualify as being left at all You seem to interpret that statement as an opinion, but it is not a subjective statement. [1] The U.S. isn't the only democracy in the world, and if we compare the Democratic party with other political parties around the world, they are indeed barely left-of-center. [1] https://archive.md/PjNEF https://archive.md/PjNEF

jjcon 5y ago
I'm not sure an opinion piece in the nyt qualifies as evidence but that same analysis classified tons of other liberal parties as right wing (uk, switzerland etc) which seems more like they have a definitions problem due to a complete lack of clear criteria.
- rrrrrrrrrrrryan 5y ago
  The Manifesto Project has its downsides, but it's still one of the best datasets we've got [1], and the other survey-based datasets like the Global Party Survey [2] yield similar results [3]. (Note: You brought up the UK's Labor party which appears much more left here, as social & economic values are broken out into separate axes). When viewed from a global perspective, the Republican party is firmly right-wing, but today's Democratic party is decidedly center-left on economic issues, and more closely reflects the values of the median American voter [4]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manifesto_Project_Database#Academic_reception https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manifesto_Project_Database#Aca... [2] https://www.globalpartysurvey.org/methods https://www.globalpartysurvey.org/methods [3] https://i.imgur.com/rNeCdnH.png https://i.imgur.com/rNeCdnH.png [4] https://i.imgur.com/WWYHSzx.png https://i.imgur.com/WWYHSzx.png
- ashtonkem 5y ago
  I’d argue quite strongly that liberalism is a moderate right to center position nowadays, so that sounds about right. So saying that the liberal parties are classified as right in such an analysis doesn’t seem like a contradiction or counter argument to me. Frankly, I have no idea why people consider liberal to be left wing. How else would you describe an ideology that emphasizes private property, free trade, and market capitalism as anything other than at least moderate right? Sure, if you’re a monarchist that whole “equality before the law” sounds radical left, but for the rest of us… And that’s before we talk about neoliberalism and it’s emphasis on free markets and minimal government interference, which is hardly a leftist position.

jjcon 5y ago

I'm not sure an opinion piece in the nyt qualifies as evidence but that same analysis classified tons of other liberal parties as right wing (uk, switzerland etc) which seems more like they have a definitions problem due to a complete lack of clear criteria.

rrrrrrrrrrrryan 5y ago
The Manifesto Project has its downsides, but it's still one of the best datasets we've got [1], and the other survey-based datasets like the Global Party Survey [2] yield similar results [3]. (Note: You brought up the UK's Labor party which appears much more left here, as social & economic values are broken out into separate axes). When viewed from a global perspective, the Republican party is firmly right-wing, but today's Democratic party is decidedly center-left on economic issues, and more closely reflects the values of the median American voter [4]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manifesto_Project_Database#Academic_reception https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manifesto_Project_Database#Aca... [2] https://www.globalpartysurvey.org/methods https://www.globalpartysurvey.org/methods [3] https://i.imgur.com/rNeCdnH.png https://i.imgur.com/rNeCdnH.png [4] https://i.imgur.com/WWYHSzx.png https://i.imgur.com/WWYHSzx.png
ashtonkem 5y ago
I’d argue quite strongly that liberalism is a moderate right to center position nowadays, so that sounds about right. So saying that the liberal parties are classified as right in such an analysis doesn’t seem like a contradiction or counter argument to me. Frankly, I have no idea why people consider liberal to be left wing. How else would you describe an ideology that emphasizes private property, free trade, and market capitalism as anything other than at least moderate right? Sure, if you’re a monarchist that whole “equality before the law” sounds radical left, but for the rest of us… And that’s before we talk about neoliberalism and it’s emphasis on free markets and minimal government interference, which is hardly a leftist position.