5 ms·

The biggest problem with CLT and other engineered wood beams is that it fails extremely quickly in a fire. I've heard firefighters talk about how their departm

The biggest problem with CLT and other engineered wood beams is that it fails extremely quickly in a fire. I've heard firefighters talk about how their departments are considering scaling back entries on newer homes because those beams can fail so early in a fire when the binder fails.

gamblor956 5y ago
This study disagrees with your claims. https://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/pdf2012/fpl_2012_dagenais001.pdf https://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/pdf2012/fpl_2012_dagenais...
- KennyBlanken 5y ago
  A study conducted by two fucking industry trade groups and the USDA Forest Products lab? > FPInnovations is a private not-for-profit R&D organization that specializes in the creation of solutions that accelerate the growth of the Canadian forest sector and its affiliated industries to enhance their global competitiveness Did you read the fucking introduction? It's an industry-paid-for shill study: > Financial support for the development of this US edition of the CLT Handbook was provided by the Bi-National Softwood Council, US Forest Products Laboratory and Forest Innovation Investment. Financial support for conducting the fire resistance test series on cross-laminated timber (CLT) was provided by Natural Resources Canada (NRCan) under the Transformative Technologies Program, which was created to identify and accelerate the development and introduction of products such as CLT in North America. FPInnovations expresses its thanks to its industry members Julie Frappier, Eng. from Nordic Engineered Wood and Andre Morf from Structurlam, Dr. Nourredine Bénichou of the National Research Council of Canada, NRCan (Canadian Forest Service), the Provinces of British Columbia, Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba, Ontario, Quebec, Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, Newfoundland and Labrador, and the Yukon Territory for their continuing guidance and financial support. I guess it must be the steel industry planting astroturfers in reddit comments pretending to be firefighters talking about how they're seeing new construction buildings with engineered structural wood fold stunningly fast, huh?
  - gamblor956 5y ago
    Don't be a dick. Since you're clearly not going to do your own research and will simply accuse people of disagreeing with you of being industry shills, here are some more articles discussing non-industry studies that show you're full of hot air: https://www.fastcompany.com/90545929/mass-timber-is-the-future-of-architecture-but-can-it-survive-a-world-on-fire https://www.fastcompany.com/90545929/mass-timber-is-the-futu..., https://blogs.oregonstate.edu/collegeofforestry/2018/03/27/putting-clt-fire/ https://blogs.oregonstate.edu/collegeofforestry/2018/03/27/p... (demonstrating that charred CLT can maintain structural integrity at temperatures that could cause steel structures to soften and collapse. Or in other words, that steel structures can be less safe in the event of a fire than a wood structure.
jillesvangurp 5y ago
It's not that black and white. CLT is more of a group of materials with different characteristics than a single thing. Fire rated versions of it exist and are commonly used depending on the requirements and building codes. This article has a nice overview: https://constructionexec.com/article/fire-safety-of-clt-and-mass-timber-buildings https://constructionexec.com/article/fire-safety-of-clt-and-... Using cheaper materials for low rise might indeed be an issue. Also, living in houses that are mostly low quality plywood and other flammable materials is of course not great for fire safety. It's a tradeoff between cost, requirements, and regulations. Even concrete buildings sometimes collapse when fire gets hot enough. Metal loses its strength when it gets warm enough. The collapse of the Twin Towers in New York are a pretty grim example of that.

gamblor956 5y ago

This study disagrees with your claims. https://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/pdf2012/fpl_2012_dagenais001.pdf https://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/pdf2012/fpl_2012_dagenais...

KennyBlanken 5y ago
A study conducted by two fucking industry trade groups and the USDA Forest Products lab? > FPInnovations is a private not-for-profit R&D organization that specializes in the creation of solutions that accelerate the growth of the Canadian forest sector and its affiliated industries to enhance their global competitiveness Did you read the fucking introduction? It's an industry-paid-for shill study: > Financial support for the development of this US edition of the CLT Handbook was provided by the Bi-National Softwood Council, US Forest Products Laboratory and Forest Innovation Investment. Financial support for conducting the fire resistance test series on cross-laminated timber (CLT) was provided by Natural Resources Canada (NRCan) under the Transformative Technologies Program, which was created to identify and accelerate the development and introduction of products such as CLT in North America. FPInnovations expresses its thanks to its industry members Julie Frappier, Eng. from Nordic Engineered Wood and Andre Morf from Structurlam, Dr. Nourredine Bénichou of the National Research Council of Canada, NRCan (Canadian Forest Service), the Provinces of British Columbia, Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba, Ontario, Quebec, Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, Newfoundland and Labrador, and the Yukon Territory for their continuing guidance and financial support. I guess it must be the steel industry planting astroturfers in reddit comments pretending to be firefighters talking about how they're seeing new construction buildings with engineered structural wood fold stunningly fast, huh?
- gamblor956 5y ago
  Don't be a dick. Since you're clearly not going to do your own research and will simply accuse people of disagreeing with you of being industry shills, here are some more articles discussing non-industry studies that show you're full of hot air: https://www.fastcompany.com/90545929/mass-timber-is-the-future-of-architecture-but-can-it-survive-a-world-on-fire https://www.fastcompany.com/90545929/mass-timber-is-the-futu..., https://blogs.oregonstate.edu/collegeofforestry/2018/03/27/putting-clt-fire/ https://blogs.oregonstate.edu/collegeofforestry/2018/03/27/p... (demonstrating that charred CLT can maintain structural integrity at temperatures that could cause steel structures to soften and collapse. Or in other words, that steel structures can be less safe in the event of a fire than a wood structure.

jillesvangurp 5y ago

It's not that black and white. CLT is more of a group of materials with different characteristics than a single thing. Fire rated versions of it exist and are commonly used depending on the requirements and building codes. This article has a nice overview: https://constructionexec.com/article/fire-safety-of-clt-and-mass-timber-buildings https://constructionexec.com/article/fire-safety-of-clt-and-... Using cheaper materials for low rise might indeed be an issue. Also, living in houses that are mostly low quality plywood and other flammable materials is of course not great for fire safety. It's a tradeoff between cost, requirements, and regulations. Even concrete buildings sometimes collapse when fire gets hot enough. Metal loses its strength when it gets warm enough. The collapse of the Twin Towers in New York are a pretty grim example of that.