4 ms·

Diet science is chaos. What we all need is not another fad diet or fasting strategy or super food, but rather a process that looks like a flowchart so an indiv

Diet science is chaos. What we all need is not another fad diet or fasting strategy or super food, but rather a process that looks like a flowchart so an individual can achieve certain goals. I'd be shocked if we ever found a one-size-fits-all diet, but there should be some kind of process to design a good diet specific to an individual, using feedback from measurements like weight, blood sugar, vitamin levels, energy levels and mood. Want to lose weight? Try fasting for a month. Then stop and try calorie restriction for a month. Was one easier? Did one help you lose more weight? Make adjustments to the more effective one and keep going. Want to have more energy? Pick a group of healthy foods eat only them for a week. Then, pick a separate group and do that for a week. Journal every day so you can make comparisons about how you feel and how much energy you have. Wondering what foods are making you feel tired/sick? Pick a handful of vegetables and eat them for a week, then slowly add in the usual suspects that might be sapping your energy. When you find the food that's slowing you down, cut it out of your diet permanently. Want to save money on groceries? Find the foods that are working best for you and swap out cheaper alternatives or buy in bulk. I have no idea what the process should look like, these are just possible examples, but a process is what I want.

Spivak 5y ago
You're just describing how nutritionalists help people. You can of course apply the scientific method yourself without them but the reason you pay them to borrow their knowledge and experience to help you minimize the number of experiments you have to do to find "your" diet.
- cheese_van 5y ago
  What I found interesting about adopting a diet was how it changed my perception of shopping for food. When I now walk into a modern well-stocked supermarket, it's shocking (now) that the vast majority of their inventory is useless and harmful (or at least to me). Vast isles of delicious utter crap. Crap in bags, crap in cans, colorful packaged crap wherever you turn. Food that will kill you given time enough. Is there a solution to this self-induced (the market gives us what we want) madness?
  - Spivak 5y ago
    Right?! It’s crazy how much shelf space is devoted to junk food. But I don’t think it’s quite as bad as you’re making out. As long as you stick to “ingredients”, whether they’re canned, jarred, frozen, whatever, you’re pretty safe. Like I’m going through the aisles and yeah you have to avoid a bunch of whole aisles devoted to “processed” foods but that’s certainly not the majority of my grocery store.
ravenstine 5y ago
> Diet science is chaos. 100% > What we all need is not another fad diet or fasting strategy or super food, but rather a process that looks like a flowchart so an individual can achieve certain goals. I really don't think that's going to help. What you are treating as an engineering problem is mostly a human problem. Unless a human is psychologically programmed in a way that isn't counterproductive, few if any processes are going to allow them to improve their health or lose weight on their own. A lot of times when people "fast", firstly they often aren't actually fasting, but secondly they are often doing so because they see it as a shortcut to gorge their brains out on whatever food they want when the time comes for them to refeed. They may lose some weight, but at a certain point they reach a new set point where they aren't going to see further improvement with the same input, and they're dumbfounded because they didn't take any time to question their original assumptions about losing weight. Giving these people a flow chart probably won't do any good. For a select few, maybe it will. I've talked to enough people trying to lose weight, and are mystified by hitting plateaus, that I don't think they're going to have the discipline to follow a chart. People get fat not just because of the food but for a variety of psychological issues, and it just so happens those underlying issues manifest in quenching sadness, depression, and anger with addictive junk food. If someone is stuck in victimhood mentality, when they get stuck they'll make excuses to not actually do the hard work of researching, taking measurements, writing down notes, and making adjustments. Instead they'll whine, find excuses to continue eating junk in some capacity, and eventually move on to the next "host" diet fad their pathology can prey upon. It's not uncommon for people to cheat on their diet plan and to not mention it when they inquire with others, only for it to be revealed once too much time has passed. Humans have this strange penchant of being able to lie to themselves as well as others. Try coaching someone who is morbidly obese and there's a good chance you will eventually find out they were having a "cheat day" every other day with a large milkshake. Those who actually can make a long lasting change need both a reality check and to be honest with themselves. In my opinion, it really doesn't matter that much what particular approach to take with weight loss as long as it involves keeping insulin levels relatively low. Fasting, vegan diet, carnivore, paleo, whatever. Someone who is serious about their weight loss and sheds the victim mentality will be already be able to observe, reflect, and act without a flow chart. If you are chronically sad, depressed person with low self esteem and learned helplessness, then everything will be a silver-bullet until suddenly it's not, and a cycle of making excuses to break guidelines will just repeat.
cudgy 5y ago
Sounds like the process of an oligoantigenic diet. Almost everyone could benefit from it, but it is not an easy diet process to follow. Much can be learned from it though.

Spivak 5y ago

You're just describing how nutritionalists help people. You can of course apply the scientific method yourself without them but the reason you pay them to borrow their knowledge and experience to help you minimize the number of experiments you have to do to find "your" diet.

cheese_van 5y ago
What I found interesting about adopting a diet was how it changed my perception of shopping for food. When I now walk into a modern well-stocked supermarket, it's shocking (now) that the vast majority of their inventory is useless and harmful (or at least to me). Vast isles of delicious utter crap. Crap in bags, crap in cans, colorful packaged crap wherever you turn. Food that will kill you given time enough. Is there a solution to this self-induced (the market gives us what we want) madness?
- Spivak 5y ago
  Right?! It’s crazy how much shelf space is devoted to junk food. But I don’t think it’s quite as bad as you’re making out. As long as you stick to “ingredients”, whether they’re canned, jarred, frozen, whatever, you’re pretty safe. Like I’m going through the aisles and yeah you have to avoid a bunch of whole aisles devoted to “processed” foods but that’s certainly not the majority of my grocery store.

ravenstine 5y ago

> Diet science is chaos. 100% > What we all need is not another fad diet or fasting strategy or super food, but rather a process that looks like a flowchart so an individual can achieve certain goals. I really don't think that's going to help. What you are treating as an engineering problem is mostly a human problem. Unless a human is psychologically programmed in a way that isn't counterproductive, few if any processes are going to allow them to improve their health or lose weight on their own. A lot of times when people "fast", firstly they often aren't actually fasting, but secondly they are often doing so because they see it as a shortcut to gorge their brains out on whatever food they want when the time comes for them to refeed. They may lose some weight, but at a certain point they reach a new set point where they aren't going to see further improvement with the same input, and they're dumbfounded because they didn't take any time to question their original assumptions about losing weight. Giving these people a flow chart probably won't do any good. For a select few, maybe it will. I've talked to enough people trying to lose weight, and are mystified by hitting plateaus, that I don't think they're going to have the discipline to follow a chart. People get fat not just because of the food but for a variety of psychological issues, and it just so happens those underlying issues manifest in quenching sadness, depression, and anger with addictive junk food. If someone is stuck in victimhood mentality, when they get stuck they'll make excuses to not actually do the hard work of researching, taking measurements, writing down notes, and making adjustments. Instead they'll whine, find excuses to continue eating junk in some capacity, and eventually move on to the next "host" diet fad their pathology can prey upon. It's not uncommon for people to cheat on their diet plan and to not mention it when they inquire with others, only for it to be revealed once too much time has passed. Humans have this strange penchant of being able to lie to themselves as well as others. Try coaching someone who is morbidly obese and there's a good chance you will eventually find out they were having a "cheat day" every other day with a large milkshake. Those who actually can make a long lasting change need both a reality check and to be honest with themselves. In my opinion, it really doesn't matter that much what particular approach to take with weight loss as long as it involves keeping insulin levels relatively low. Fasting, vegan diet, carnivore, paleo, whatever. Someone who is serious about their weight loss and sheds the victim mentality will be already be able to observe, reflect, and act without a flow chart. If you are chronically sad, depressed person with low self esteem and learned helplessness, then everything will be a silver-bullet until suddenly it's not, and a cycle of making excuses to break guidelines will just repeat.

cudgy 5y ago

Sounds like the process of an oligoantigenic diet. Almost everyone could benefit from it, but it is not an easy diet process to follow. Much can be learned from it though.