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Indeed... I'm beginning to believe that I exist in an alternate universe (colloquially known as "Europe") where insane software engineering salaries aren't norm

Indeed... I'm beginning to believe that I exist in an alternate universe (colloquially known as "Europe") where insane software engineering salaries aren't normalised.

AlwaysRock 5y ago
Many fang companies have offices all over Europe. The pay is not quite as high as the US but it is much higher than average dev European salaries.
- samhw 5y ago
  Eh, this is not always and everywhere true. I have friends at Google here in London and some of the salary figures I've heard are shockingly low. As in, sub-or-around-100k low. Though admittedly these are people who I'd guess are below, say, L5.
  - eatYourFood 5y ago
    That 'low' salary may put them in the top few percent of the whole country for their age bracket which means they can live quite nice lives. Everything is relative.
    - samhw 5y ago
      That's true, and I'm aware how lucky we are in this profession. But I'm talking relative to the software engineering job market at large.
  - AlwaysRock 5y ago
    Right. It's not always true. Which is why I said on average...
    - samhw 5y ago
      No, you said FAANG pay is higher than average European dev pay, not that average FAANG pay is higher than [average] European dev pay
eatYourFood 5y ago
It took me 7 years to get to 101,000 GBP (140,000 USD) in London. After 10 years I am now on 125,000 GBP + bonuses (172,000 USD). Wages in the US are higher but for some reason I don't see a higher standard of living; there must be other factors at play. History: Java dev - large consultancy Java dev - small consultancy Tech lead - contractor Senior Architect - Massive software vendor (not FAANG) Principal Architect - Massive software vendor (not FAANG) Principal Architect - (current) medium sized consulting firm
- TameAntelope 5y ago
  What qualifies as a "higher standard of living" to you, that isn't culture specific?
  - eatYourFood 5y ago
    It's not just cultural, it's personal too. I've worked with (and still work with) many Americans, let me give you an idea. I get paid 174,000 USD per year I take 6 weeks off (vacation) per year to sail in the Mediterranean and to SKI in the French and Swiss alps. This is fully paid and it would be highly abnormal if I did not take this time off. My wife was paid her full salary for 6 months to have a baby. The government would have mandated a minimum payment term if that did not happen. I never have to worry about healthcare, it's just there and it's available all the time regardless of employment I never worry about being fired without strong cause, I am protected by strong laws None of my children have ever participated in an 'active shooter drill' I went to a top tier University and only paid 3000 GBP per year. The government gave me thousands of pounds without expecting repayment. The government gave me thousands of pounds and said they will write it off if I can't pay it back before 25 years and they won't ask for a single penny if I earn below a certain amount. When they did start taking repayments, it was a small amount extra on top of my income tax. The interest rate is also very low to the point of it not really mattering.
    - MrDresden 5y ago
      Also European (IS), and all of those points (though on 90k US) apply on this end as well. Quality of life is good and the wages as well.
HeyLaughingBoy 5y ago
Don't feel bad. In the alternate, alternate universe (colloquially known as "the USA outside of Silicon Valley, Seattle & NYC") they aren't normalized either.
- spicyusername 5y ago
  Agreed. $150k is a commanding salary in most parts of the U.S. outside the bay area.
MrDresden 5y ago
They exist, but only at the players who compete in the global hiring pool (Google, Fb, Amazon, Spotify etc). A local company which predominantly only competes in the European hiring pool will never give a wage higher than locally required.

Indeed... I'm beginning to believe that I exist in an alternate universe (colloquially known as "Europe") where insane software engineering salaries aren't normalised.

AlwaysRock 5y ago

Many fang companies have offices all over Europe. The pay is not quite as high as the US but it is much higher than average dev European salaries.

samhw 5y ago
Eh, this is not always and everywhere true. I have friends at Google here in London and some of the salary figures I've heard are shockingly low. As in, sub-or-around-100k low. Though admittedly these are people who I'd guess are below, say, L5.
- eatYourFood 5y ago
  That 'low' salary may put them in the top few percent of the whole country for their age bracket which means they can live quite nice lives. Everything is relative.
  - samhw 5y ago
    That's true, and I'm aware how lucky we are in this profession. But I'm talking relative to the software engineering job market at large.
- AlwaysRock 5y ago
  Right. It's not always true. Which is why I said on average...
  - samhw 5y ago
    No, you said FAANG pay is higher than average European dev pay, not that average FAANG pay is higher than [average] European dev pay

eatYourFood 5y ago

It took me 7 years to get to 101,000 GBP (140,000 USD) in London. After 10 years I am now on 125,000 GBP + bonuses (172,000 USD). Wages in the US are higher but for some reason I don't see a higher standard of living; there must be other factors at play. History: Java dev - large consultancy Java dev - small consultancy Tech lead - contractor Senior Architect - Massive software vendor (not FAANG) Principal Architect - Massive software vendor (not FAANG) Principal Architect - (current) medium sized consulting firm

TameAntelope 5y ago
What qualifies as a "higher standard of living" to you, that isn't culture specific?
- eatYourFood 5y ago
  It's not just cultural, it's personal too. I've worked with (and still work with) many Americans, let me give you an idea. I get paid 174,000 USD per year I take 6 weeks off (vacation) per year to sail in the Mediterranean and to SKI in the French and Swiss alps. This is fully paid and it would be highly abnormal if I did not take this time off. My wife was paid her full salary for 6 months to have a baby. The government would have mandated a minimum payment term if that did not happen. I never have to worry about healthcare, it's just there and it's available all the time regardless of employment I never worry about being fired without strong cause, I am protected by strong laws None of my children have ever participated in an 'active shooter drill' I went to a top tier University and only paid 3000 GBP per year. The government gave me thousands of pounds without expecting repayment. The government gave me thousands of pounds and said they will write it off if I can't pay it back before 25 years and they won't ask for a single penny if I earn below a certain amount. When they did start taking repayments, it was a small amount extra on top of my income tax. The interest rate is also very low to the point of it not really mattering.
  - MrDresden 5y ago
    Also European (IS), and all of those points (though on 90k US) apply on this end as well. Quality of life is good and the wages as well.

HeyLaughingBoy 5y ago

Don't feel bad. In the alternate, alternate universe (colloquially known as "the USA outside of Silicon Valley, Seattle & NYC") they aren't normalized either.

spicyusername 5y ago
Agreed. $150k is a commanding salary in most parts of the U.S. outside the bay area.

MrDresden 5y ago

They exist, but only at the players who compete in the global hiring pool (Google, Fb, Amazon, Spotify etc). A local company which predominantly only competes in the European hiring pool will never give a wage higher than locally required.