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I really think people who leave software engineering altogether mostly failed to find a company that respects engineers/pays well. If you are good at the algori

I really think people who leave software engineering altogether mostly failed to find a company that respects engineers/pays well. If you are good at the algorithms interviews, you can make ~400k with 5 to 8 years of experience. Do that for a decade, and with some saving and basic investing, you are basically done working. On the other hand, fail to pass the algorithms interview, you are essentially stuck at 140-170k, not growing, not seeing a path forward. Every job feels the same, pays the same, and really doesnt need you, you are a cog. It all comes down to a test.

oblio 5y ago
> It all comes down to a test. And willingness to relocate, possibly across the world. And feasibility of getting an US visa. Or facing much, much stiffer odds if you want to be paid that well as a remote worker, since the number of remote spots with that kind of pay is incredibly small compared to the amount of people fighting over them.
- throwawayswede 5y ago
  And timing. Sometimes good opportunities are at times when you're not ready for them. We all get some sort of a "shot" but it's very difficult to see sometimes, or to make the risky move of accepting it.
- phreeza 5y ago
  > > It all comes down to a test. > And feasibility of getting an US visa. Or Switzerland, which is relatively easy for most Europeans, and easier than US for virtually everyone, I think.
  - oblio 5y ago
    Swiss total compensation at companies which pay 400-500k in the US is much lower than that. Unless you are super fortunate to join at the start of a boom cycle when shares are about to double in value or something. You basically need to be in the US, and in the US in the Silicon Valley, Seattle or NYC, I think, to somewhat reasonably hit 400-500k with just an algorithms interview :-)
    - Jensson 5y ago
      Google Switzerland pays the same as the main campus in California.
      - oblio 5y ago
        Oh, interesting. That's news to me, but then again, my source is quite old. Target total compensation? Not total compensation after stocks went up a ton?
        phreeza 5y ago
        Stock component is slightly lower in CH so if anything it would bias the result in the opposite way.
savant_penguin 5y ago
I wish I was stuck programming for 140k
- Xophmeister 5y ago
  Indeed... I'm beginning to believe that I exist in an alternate universe (colloquially known as "Europe") where insane software engineering salaries aren't normalised.
  - AlwaysRock 5y ago
    Many fang companies have offices all over Europe. The pay is not quite as high as the US but it is much higher than average dev European salaries.
    - samhw 5y ago
      Eh, this is not always and everywhere true. I have friends at Google here in London and some of the salary figures I've heard are shockingly low. As in, sub-or-around-100k low. Though admittedly these are people who I'd guess are below, say, L5.
      - eatYourFood 5y ago
        That 'low' salary may put them in the top few percent of the whole country for their age bracket which means they can live quite nice lives. Everything is relative.
        samhw 5y ago
        That's true, and I'm aware how lucky we are in this profession. But I'm talking relative to the software engineering job market at large.
      - AlwaysRock 5y ago
        Right. It's not always true. Which is why I said on average...
davesque 5y ago
There are a lot of ways that this comes off sounding like bullshit advice a la "make $300k a week with this one simple trick after taking my course" style advertisements. There are a million things that could go wrong over a ten year period with your perfect plan. I think there's a heavy survivorship bias among those who've managed to execute this kind of exit from work life.
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throwawaysleep 5y ago
> Every job feels the same, pays the same, and really doesnt need you, you are a cog. I find this provides me with a certain freedom. If I’m tired, I can just not do something. I am freed from pressure and high expectations as the worst possible outcome is I get fired and end up in the exact same type of place.
coliveira 5y ago
That's not entirely true. I work for big corporations, and the reality is that they're paying big money not for the ability to code, but for the ability to manage projects (even when there is a separate PM). If you're good at making several people work towards a goal and make management happy with your projects, you'll make the money you mention. If you're just interested in coding, they will show you the door sooner rather than later.
jmac01 5y ago
Is this based on experience? This post reads a bit like a student studying algorithms for the coding interview thinking that is the pathway to success.
- spease 5y ago
  I've worked in the valley for ~9 years, have ~20 YOE if you include self-taught web dev and game dev work with a commercial game engine in online teams during high school, and this has absolutely been my experience. The first thing I tell anybody starting out who asks me for advice is to study algorithms. Not because I think it will be inherently useful to programming, but because I think it will do more to help them interview for high-paying jobs than actual coding skills.
deleted 5y ago
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eklbt 5y ago
RCG with 5 years as an intern. Now that I'm out of college, most of my projects have been minor features that take more time fighting an ancient windows GUI library than actually improving my programming skills. Any suggestions for finding work that will actually improve applications of the various algorithms(outside of grinding leetcode)
khalilravanna 5y ago
I see a lot of flak for this comment but I will say first hand it is true that you can study to pass FAANG interviews and double your salary (in the US). I spent 7 months studying during covid and finally made the leap. Obviously not everyone has the time to commit to studying (I almost burned out doing just 10 hours a week on top of my 9-5) but it is in the realm of possibility. And the big tech cos have been constantly hiring and are mostly accepting full remote. Even during covid I readily had interviews lined up with FB/Google/Amazon.
austincheney 5y ago
That kind of thinking is what drives experienced people out of software. So 400k salaries (not equity) was available in the bay area before everything went full time remote, which is great if you are forever childless and 20 years old sharing an apartment with 6 other people. Then reality sets in. I have seen people do it though, contractors living in Afghanistan for a decade earing more than $300k with no living expenses. > It all comes down to a test. Well, that's more informed than a lottery ticket, but it still sounds like a gamble compared to nearly every other professional industry.
commandlinefan 5y ago
> If you are good at the algorithms interviews, you can make ~400k And are willing/able to move anywhere in the country.
ryandvm 5y ago
I think you have it backwards. If you can nail the CS interview, you can be one of Google's 80,000 cogs making 400K/year. Or if you can settle for 150K, you can work for a 20 person startup where you actually have input and are valued as more than just another ad enabler.
huijzer 5y ago
> stuck at 140-170k Is this amount of pay considered being "stuck" now?
Fire-Dragon-DoL 5y ago
I'd argue that you can make 140-170k and _be happy at a good workplace_. All I'm saying, the money plays a role only up to a certain point. I'm very hapoy with my job and it would be a nightmare for me to work at a FAANG

oblio 5y ago

> It all comes down to a test. And willingness to relocate, possibly across the world. And feasibility of getting an US visa. Or facing much, much stiffer odds if you want to be paid that well as a remote worker, since the number of remote spots with that kind of pay is incredibly small compared to the amount of people fighting over them.

throwawayswede 5y ago
And timing. Sometimes good opportunities are at times when you're not ready for them. We all get some sort of a "shot" but it's very difficult to see sometimes, or to make the risky move of accepting it.
phreeza 5y ago
> > It all comes down to a test. > And feasibility of getting an US visa. Or Switzerland, which is relatively easy for most Europeans, and easier than US for virtually everyone, I think.
- oblio 5y ago
  Swiss total compensation at companies which pay 400-500k in the US is much lower than that. Unless you are super fortunate to join at the start of a boom cycle when shares are about to double in value or something. You basically need to be in the US, and in the US in the Silicon Valley, Seattle or NYC, I think, to somewhat reasonably hit 400-500k with just an algorithms interview :-)
  - Jensson 5y ago
    Google Switzerland pays the same as the main campus in California.
    - oblio 5y ago
      Oh, interesting. That's news to me, but then again, my source is quite old. Target total compensation? Not total compensation after stocks went up a ton?
      - phreeza 5y ago
        Stock component is slightly lower in CH so if anything it would bias the result in the opposite way.

savant_penguin 5y ago

I wish I was stuck programming for 140k

Xophmeister 5y ago
Indeed... I'm beginning to believe that I exist in an alternate universe (colloquially known as "Europe") where insane software engineering salaries aren't normalised.
- AlwaysRock 5y ago
  Many fang companies have offices all over Europe. The pay is not quite as high as the US but it is much higher than average dev European salaries.
  - samhw 5y ago
    Eh, this is not always and everywhere true. I have friends at Google here in London and some of the salary figures I've heard are shockingly low. As in, sub-or-around-100k low. Though admittedly these are people who I'd guess are below, say, L5.
    - eatYourFood 5y ago
      That 'low' salary may put them in the top few percent of the whole country for their age bracket which means they can live quite nice lives. Everything is relative.
      - samhw 5y ago
        That's true, and I'm aware how lucky we are in this profession. But I'm talking relative to the software engineering job market at large.
    - AlwaysRock 5y ago
      Right. It's not always true. Which is why I said on average...

davesque 5y ago

There are a lot of ways that this comes off sounding like bullshit advice a la "make $300k a week with this one simple trick after taking my course" style advertisements. There are a million things that could go wrong over a ten year period with your perfect plan. I think there's a heavy survivorship bias among those who've managed to execute this kind of exit from work life.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

throwawaysleep 5y ago

> Every job feels the same, pays the same, and really doesnt need you, you are a cog. I find this provides me with a certain freedom. If I’m tired, I can just not do something. I am freed from pressure and high expectations as the worst possible outcome is I get fired and end up in the exact same type of place.

coliveira 5y ago

That's not entirely true. I work for big corporations, and the reality is that they're paying big money not for the ability to code, but for the ability to manage projects (even when there is a separate PM). If you're good at making several people work towards a goal and make management happy with your projects, you'll make the money you mention. If you're just interested in coding, they will show you the door sooner rather than later.

jmac01 5y ago

Is this based on experience? This post reads a bit like a student studying algorithms for the coding interview thinking that is the pathway to success.

spease 5y ago
I've worked in the valley for ~9 years, have ~20 YOE if you include self-taught web dev and game dev work with a commercial game engine in online teams during high school, and this has absolutely been my experience. The first thing I tell anybody starting out who asks me for advice is to study algorithms. Not because I think it will be inherently useful to programming, but because I think it will do more to help them interview for high-paying jobs than actual coding skills.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

eklbt 5y ago

RCG with 5 years as an intern. Now that I'm out of college, most of my projects have been minor features that take more time fighting an ancient windows GUI library than actually improving my programming skills. Any suggestions for finding work that will actually improve applications of the various algorithms(outside of grinding leetcode)

khalilravanna 5y ago

I see a lot of flak for this comment but I will say first hand it is true that you can study to pass FAANG interviews and double your salary (in the US). I spent 7 months studying during covid and finally made the leap. Obviously not everyone has the time to commit to studying (I almost burned out doing just 10 hours a week on top of my 9-5) but it is in the realm of possibility. And the big tech cos have been constantly hiring and are mostly accepting full remote. Even during covid I readily had interviews lined up with FB/Google/Amazon.

austincheney 5y ago

That kind of thinking is what drives experienced people out of software. So 400k salaries (not equity) was available in the bay area before everything went full time remote, which is great if you are forever childless and 20 years old sharing an apartment with 6 other people. Then reality sets in. I have seen people do it though, contractors living in Afghanistan for a decade earing more than $300k with no living expenses. > It all comes down to a test. Well, that's more informed than a lottery ticket, but it still sounds like a gamble compared to nearly every other professional industry.

commandlinefan 5y ago

> If you are good at the algorithms interviews, you can make ~400k And are willing/able to move anywhere in the country.

ryandvm 5y ago

I think you have it backwards. If you can nail the CS interview, you can be one of Google's 80,000 cogs making 400K/year. Or if you can settle for 150K, you can work for a 20 person startup where you actually have input and are valued as more than just another ad enabler.

huijzer 5y ago

> stuck at 140-170k Is this amount of pay considered being "stuck" now?

Fire-Dragon-DoL 5y ago

I'd argue that you can make 140-170k and _be happy at a good workplace_. All I'm saying, the money plays a role only up to a certain point. I'm very hapoy with my job and it would be a nightmare for me to work at a FAANG