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I prefer any definition that is clear and most everyone can agree on. A long incomplete list of properties is not ideal

by bryan0 5y ago

Jensson 5y ago
It is clear, consciousness is what allows you to experience things rather than being a mindless automaton. We can't detect this property nor can we explain it with the laws of physics we have today, but the definition of what it is is extremely clear. What you mean might be that you'd prefer a definition that you can use to measure objects around the world to detect consciousness? Well, as I said we don't have any laws or explanation for it so you wont get that. But you and everyone else knows that consciousness is a thing and you can prod at your consciousness yourself to see how it responds to stimuli etc, but that is as far as human knowledge go with respect to consciousness so far.
- bryan0 5y ago
  > consciousness is what allows you to experience things rather than being a mindless automaton. Well this is certainly a better definition IMO, however, what does a "mindless automaton" mean? If the automaton is intelligent then it's not mindless. > What you mean might be that you'd prefer a definition that you can use to measure objects around the world to detect consciousness? That's not what I mean. I actually think Turing created a decent method of detecting consciousness. What I mean is that someone on this thread said the problem with consciousness is that it is not well-defined, and I happen to agree in the sense that when people talking about consciousness they are often talking about different things. Just in this one thread 2 different definitions were proposed, and the article uses a 3rd: "the feeling of being inside your head"
  - goatlover 5y ago
    > If the automaton is intelligent then it's not mindless. Does the automation have conscious experiences? Take a simulation of a city populated with characters. Do those characters experience the city? Do they feel the warmth of the digital sun on their digital face? > I actually think Turing created a decent method of detecting consciousness. Would the turing machine feel anything during its conversation? Is there anything it's like to be code? All of these kinds of phrases are ways of specifying subjectivity.
    - bryan0 5y ago
      > Does the automation have conscious experiences? yes. Consciousness does not need to be a binary phenomenon, there are certainly different levels of consciousness. > Take a simulation of a city populated with characters. Do those characters experience the city? yes. >Do they feel the warmth of the digital sun on their digital face? No probably not, unless the simulation includes that level of perception for the characters. > Would the turing machine feel anything during its conversation? Is there anything it's like to be code? Consistent with my answers above: yes and yes.

I prefer any definition that is clear and most everyone can agree on. A long incomplete list of properties is not ideal

by bryan0 5y ago

I prefer any definition that is clear and most everyone can agree on. A long incomplete list of properties is not ideal

It is clear, consciousness is what allows you to experience things rather than being a mindless automaton. We can't detect this property nor can we explain it with the laws of physics we have today, but the definition of what it is is extremely clear. What you mean might be that you'd prefer a definition that you can use to measure objects around the world to detect consciousness? Well, as I said we don't have any laws or explanation for it so you wont get that. But you and everyone else knows that consciousness is a thing and you can prod at your consciousness yourself to see how it responds to stimuli etc, but that is as far as human knowledge go with respect to consciousness so far.

bryan0 5y ago
> consciousness is what allows you to experience things rather than being a mindless automaton. Well this is certainly a better definition IMO, however, what does a "mindless automaton" mean? If the automaton is intelligent then it's not mindless. > What you mean might be that you'd prefer a definition that you can use to measure objects around the world to detect consciousness? That's not what I mean. I actually think Turing created a decent method of detecting consciousness. What I mean is that someone on this thread said the problem with consciousness is that it is not well-defined, and I happen to agree in the sense that when people talking about consciousness they are often talking about different things. Just in this one thread 2 different definitions were proposed, and the article uses a 3rd: "the feeling of being inside your head"
- goatlover 5y ago
  > If the automaton is intelligent then it's not mindless. Does the automation have conscious experiences? Take a simulation of a city populated with characters. Do those characters experience the city? Do they feel the warmth of the digital sun on their digital face? > I actually think Turing created a decent method of detecting consciousness. Would the turing machine feel anything during its conversation? Is there anything it's like to be code? All of these kinds of phrases are ways of specifying subjectivity.
  - bryan0 5y ago
    > Does the automation have conscious experiences? yes. Consciousness does not need to be a binary phenomenon, there are certainly different levels of consciousness. > Take a simulation of a city populated with characters. Do those characters experience the city? yes. >Do they feel the warmth of the digital sun on their digital face? No probably not, unless the simulation includes that level of perception for the characters. > Would the turing machine feel anything during its conversation? Is there anything it's like to be code? Consistent with my answers above: yes and yes.