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And yet > To be clear, we have never, as they have alleged, made any requests to access user data or interfere with search results. This claim is baseless and

by judge2020 5y ago

And yet > To be clear, we have never, as they have alleged, made any requests to access user data or interfere with search results. This claim is baseless and false. So one of them (but most likely both of them) are being dishonest in their PR plays to get the other side to give in to demands. https://blog.youtube/news-and-events/update-our-youtube-tv-members-roku/ https://blog.youtube/news-and-events/update-our-youtube-tv-m...

inetknght 5y ago
That blog doesn't address the statements made by Roku. The Roku blog doesn't load for me because I have javascript disabled. But the axios article states: > asking Roku to create a dedicated search results row for YouTube within the Roku smart TV interface The YouTube blog hasn't denied that at all. In fact it practically confirms it: > Our agreements with partners have technical requirements to ensure a high quality experience on YouTube. Hah, a "high quality" experience indeed. Except, it's not quite "on youtube" since it's more "on Roku". The youtube blog also states: > Roku requested exceptions that would break the YouTube experience and limit our ability to update YouTube in order to fix issues or add new features. Let users update their YouTube app through Roku app store instead of some shitty auto-update crap that lets Google shovel shit down Roku users.
- antasvara 5y ago
  Note: this isn't meant to defend Google, because their practices are shady and by no means good. What I find interesting here is that Roku is using business practices similar to Apple and nobody seems to have a problem with it. If I told you that an app store was limiting the types of apps you could add to your device while also controlling the update process, lots of HN readers would call that out. As far as I'm aware, Roku also has a way of capturing subscription revenue as well. By alk means call out Google for their garbage business practices. But don't let Roku off the hook either.
  - MisterBastahrd 5y ago
    Most platform providers have a certification process for apps on their platforms to ensure that they don't have stability or data issues. Apple does it. Sony does it. Microsoft does it. And if Google isn't doing it with their own app store, then that raises a lot of questions about Google's commitment to quality software.
  - inetknght 5y ago
    > What I find interesting here is that Roku is using business practices similar to Apple and nobody seems to have a problem with it. True. But I would also argue that there's a different scope. Roku provides a device that allows you to watch video. That's its ultimate purpose. Apple provides multiple devices; their iOS products are meant more for mobile communication. As such it's much more user-interactive. More user interaction means more "value" inasmuch as there's more opportunities for abuse. You can use an iOS device to watch video. That's not it's sole (or arguably intended) purpose. The day that Roku provides chat apps and those chat apps can monitor what you do and where then that will be the day that I would like Roku much less.
    - judge2020 5y ago
      This seems like such an unnecessary fine line. The Apple TV box is just for watching video as well - are you fine with the App Store monopoly there? If there were regulation that allowed competing app stores, would you vote for those competitors being locked out of Apple TV apps?
  - The-Bus 5y ago
    Roku captures subscription and advertising revenue, and also resells/licenses ACR (Automatic Content Recognition) data, aka viewing data. Users can turn this off if needed. ACR Service Policy: https://docs.roku.com/published/acrservicepolicy/en/us https://docs.roku.com/published/acrservicepolicy/en/us Roku is not alone in doing this, of course. Every major TV manufacturer in the US does this.
    - lotsofpulp 5y ago
- angryasian 5y ago
  Doesn't it ? >asking Roku to create a dedicated search results row for YouTube within the Roku smart TV interface >we have never, as they have alleged, made any requests to access user data or interfere with search results. Doesn't this contradict the idea that Roku claims they are asking for special search results. >Hah, a "high quality" experience indeed. Except, it's not quite "on youtube" since it's more "on Roku". I'm not understanding your point here, its the Youtube app. Why is it more on Roku ? >crap that lets Google shovel shit down Roku users. If you don't like youtube don't use it.
  - mattmcknight 5y ago
    >I'm not understanding your point here, its the Youtube app. Why is it more on Roku ? Because one nice feature of Roku is it will search for a program across all of the services. I can search for a movie and see it's $3.99 to rent on Amazon and $4.99 somewhere and free somewhere else. Maybe Google don't like being at the end of the list alphabetically, which might make sense for company that knows the drop off clickthrough rate.
    - angryasian 5y ago
      lets be real, Google makes more from ad revenue than the sales of videos, etc. I doubt this is a big sticking point to deplatform their app.

inetknght 5y ago

That blog doesn't address the statements made by Roku. The Roku blog doesn't load for me because I have javascript disabled. But the axios article states: > asking Roku to create a dedicated search results row for YouTube within the Roku smart TV interface The YouTube blog hasn't denied that at all. In fact it practically confirms it: > Our agreements with partners have technical requirements to ensure a high quality experience on YouTube. Hah, a "high quality" experience indeed. Except, it's not quite "on youtube" since it's more "on Roku". The youtube blog also states: > Roku requested exceptions that would break the YouTube experience and limit our ability to update YouTube in order to fix issues or add new features. Let users update their YouTube app through Roku app store instead of some shitty auto-update crap that lets Google shovel shit down Roku users.

antasvara 5y ago
Note: this isn't meant to defend Google, because their practices are shady and by no means good. What I find interesting here is that Roku is using business practices similar to Apple and nobody seems to have a problem with it. If I told you that an app store was limiting the types of apps you could add to your device while also controlling the update process, lots of HN readers would call that out. As far as I'm aware, Roku also has a way of capturing subscription revenue as well. By alk means call out Google for their garbage business practices. But don't let Roku off the hook either.
- MisterBastahrd 5y ago
  Most platform providers have a certification process for apps on their platforms to ensure that they don't have stability or data issues. Apple does it. Sony does it. Microsoft does it. And if Google isn't doing it with their own app store, then that raises a lot of questions about Google's commitment to quality software.
- inetknght 5y ago
  > What I find interesting here is that Roku is using business practices similar to Apple and nobody seems to have a problem with it. True. But I would also argue that there's a different scope. Roku provides a device that allows you to watch video. That's its ultimate purpose. Apple provides multiple devices; their iOS products are meant more for mobile communication. As such it's much more user-interactive. More user interaction means more "value" inasmuch as there's more opportunities for abuse. You can use an iOS device to watch video. That's not it's sole (or arguably intended) purpose. The day that Roku provides chat apps and those chat apps can monitor what you do and where then that will be the day that I would like Roku much less.
  - judge2020 5y ago
    This seems like such an unnecessary fine line. The Apple TV box is just for watching video as well - are you fine with the App Store monopoly there? If there were regulation that allowed competing app stores, would you vote for those competitors being locked out of Apple TV apps?
- The-Bus 5y ago
  Roku captures subscription and advertising revenue, and also resells/licenses ACR (Automatic Content Recognition) data, aka viewing data. Users can turn this off if needed. ACR Service Policy: https://docs.roku.com/published/acrservicepolicy/en/us https://docs.roku.com/published/acrservicepolicy/en/us Roku is not alone in doing this, of course. Every major TV manufacturer in the US does this.
  - lotsofpulp 5y ago
angryasian 5y ago
Doesn't it ? >asking Roku to create a dedicated search results row for YouTube within the Roku smart TV interface >we have never, as they have alleged, made any requests to access user data or interfere with search results. Doesn't this contradict the idea that Roku claims they are asking for special search results. >Hah, a "high quality" experience indeed. Except, it's not quite "on youtube" since it's more "on Roku". I'm not understanding your point here, its the Youtube app. Why is it more on Roku ? >crap that lets Google shovel shit down Roku users. If you don't like youtube don't use it.
- mattmcknight 5y ago
  >I'm not understanding your point here, its the Youtube app. Why is it more on Roku ? Because one nice feature of Roku is it will search for a program across all of the services. I can search for a movie and see it's $3.99 to rent on Amazon and $4.99 somewhere and free somewhere else. Maybe Google don't like being at the end of the list alphabetically, which might make sense for company that knows the drop off clickthrough rate.
  - angryasian 5y ago
    lets be real, Google makes more from ad revenue than the sales of videos, etc. I doubt this is a big sticking point to deplatform their app.