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Regarding the credibility of said statement, also mind that – depending on estimates and your local mix of energy production – the rather high CO2 footprint of

Regarding the credibility of said statement, also mind that – depending on estimates and your local mix of energy production – the rather high CO2 footprint of long-range battery production is only offset after 3.5 – 15 years of average use [0]. Where average use is US millage, with millages being typically lower in Europe. So Tesla Europe will not be saving the world. What it really does, is relocating the source of emissions. [0] Compare https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RhtiPefVzM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RhtiPefVzM and studies referred to in the description.

bryanlarsen 5y ago
The latest numbers I've heard are 6-18 months. The numbers are dropping rapidly. This makes intuitive sense because costs are dropping rapidly. It used to cost $1200/KWh to build an automotive battery, and now it's close to $100/KWh. Costs and CO2 emissions are highly correlated -- a more efficient production process uses less energy. The other big factor is the source of the electricity used to power the car. But that's a chicken and egg problem. To decarbonize transporation you need to both electrify the car and decarbonize the electricity. In other words both steps are necessary -- doing only one of the two is a huge step towards both steps getting done, but it doesn't show in the final numbers until both steps are done. It takes about 20 years to turn over the car inventory and even longer to turn over power plants, so we need to start aggressively doing both now.
- masswerk 5y ago
  Mind that not all EVs are built the same. Maybe, EVs with smaller (possibly swappable) batteries, which are also lighter and smaller are a better fit for the specific environment. The solution offered by Tesla is very much linked to the US, the wide distances, its suburbia and the implications thereof. There's a certain possibility that it may not represent the optimum for a European scenario.
wongarsu 5y ago
The average car on the road in the US is 12 years old [1]. With Teslas battery degradation seems to be a non-issue [2], with the battery still having ~90% capacity after 200k miles. So except for maybe the very upper end of your range I don't see how that's evidence against electric cars reducing CO2 emissions. 1: https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a33457915/average-age-vehicles-on-road-12-years/ https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a33457915/average-age-vehi... 2: https://www.inverse.com/innovation/tesla-battery-life-replacement-cost https://www.inverse.com/innovation/tesla-battery-life-replac...
- masswerk 5y ago
  As noted, millages are typically lower in Europe. Infrastructure is less extensive, ways shorter, there's more public transport and serves a notable quantity of daily commute, and there's less need for long-range. So calculations are different for a European scenario. (Tesla cars are really built for an US environment, which is rather atypical for everywhere else.)

bryanlarsen 5y ago

The latest numbers I've heard are 6-18 months. The numbers are dropping rapidly. This makes intuitive sense because costs are dropping rapidly. It used to cost $1200/KWh to build an automotive battery, and now it's close to $100/KWh. Costs and CO2 emissions are highly correlated -- a more efficient production process uses less energy. The other big factor is the source of the electricity used to power the car. But that's a chicken and egg problem. To decarbonize transporation you need to both electrify the car and decarbonize the electricity. In other words both steps are necessary -- doing only one of the two is a huge step towards both steps getting done, but it doesn't show in the final numbers until both steps are done. It takes about 20 years to turn over the car inventory and even longer to turn over power plants, so we need to start aggressively doing both now.

masswerk 5y ago
Mind that not all EVs are built the same. Maybe, EVs with smaller (possibly swappable) batteries, which are also lighter and smaller are a better fit for the specific environment. The solution offered by Tesla is very much linked to the US, the wide distances, its suburbia and the implications thereof. There's a certain possibility that it may not represent the optimum for a European scenario.

wongarsu 5y ago

The average car on the road in the US is 12 years old [1]. With Teslas battery degradation seems to be a non-issue [2], with the battery still having ~90% capacity after 200k miles. So except for maybe the very upper end of your range I don't see how that's evidence against electric cars reducing CO2 emissions. 1: https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a33457915/average-age-vehicles-on-road-12-years/ https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a33457915/average-age-vehi... 2: https://www.inverse.com/innovation/tesla-battery-life-replacement-cost https://www.inverse.com/innovation/tesla-battery-life-replac...

masswerk 5y ago
As noted, millages are typically lower in Europe. Infrastructure is less extensive, ways shorter, there's more public transport and serves a notable quantity of daily commute, and there's less need for long-range. So calculations are different for a European scenario. (Tesla cars are really built for an US environment, which is rather atypical for everywhere else.)