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i feel like you agree with me in your opening statement they ARE saying they'll bring these products to market. im not going to refute all your points but you h

i feel like you agree with me in your opening statement they ARE saying they'll bring these products to market. im not going to refute all your points but you have an extremely optimistic view. Loop NEEDS fsd because basically right now its a taxi service and every single driver needs to be paid. have you heard of buses? theyre economically cheaper. People have done the math on this and its contrary to your point. If you want contrary points just lookup thunderfoot on youtube. hes the one who convinced me to stop investing in tesla.

panick21_ 5y ago
> you have an extremely optimistic view. Its extremely optimistic that a company that is proven to be able t build EV at scale (literally the biggest EV company in the world) and is growing 50% a year can introduce a new EVs and work on research projects at the same time? That a company that is the largest buyer of batteries in the world can make strage systems with those batteries? Maybe the timelines are to short but the idea that its not realistic is just nonsense. > Loop NEEDS fsd because basically right now its a taxi service and every single driver needs to be paid. Again, just because it has drivers now doesn't mean it needs to be capable of FSD. Its an extremely limited well mapped area on dedicated lanes. Totally different requirement. > have you heard of buses? theyre economically cheaper Just because you prefer some other solution doesn't mean something you don't like isn't viable. > People have done the math on this and its contrary to your point. Are these the same people that said Tesla could never reach volume production, EV would never be profitable, orbital rockets couldn't land and that rocket reuse would never be economical? Again, can you please show me detailed cost model and not just 'people' (whole likely work for competitors) did some napkin math and said it wasn't competitive. > If you want contrary points just lookup thunderfoot on youtube You realize with this statement you have immediately disqualified yourself from any discussion. He is basically a youtube troll who generates clicks from gullible Musk hater. I mean seriously, his video are just embracing to watch in their incompetence. If you actually use him as a source for what works and what doesn't you have no credibility. In the space community, meaning people space journalist, and people who professionally analyze space his is basically regard as a joke. He directly contradicts what former SpaceX employees say, what former Astronauts say and so on. He doesn't believe things in offical NASA reports and so on. Literally no credibility. For Tesla you have people like Sandy Munro, former lead engineer at Ford and leading an independent shop consulting on automotive production with 50 years experience who comment on issues like production. And instead you believe some guy with no actual industry experience who clearly does not have accuracy as his first goal, but rather showing how much smarter he is. The guy is a joke that produces video like it was 2005. I mean if he is so amazingly smart that he can reason about every single engineering project in the world why can't he make a video that looks doesn't look like a 8 year old put together. Seriously, there are people on yt who spend 100s of hours researching videos, talking in detail to engineers from all over the industry and build connections, find publicly available papers and patents. TheLimitingFactor on yt validates each video with a number of experts on the subject before he releases it. While thunderfoot basically just spends 90% insulting people and then 10% showing some misleading data about something that he didn't understand in the first place. You have seriously been taking in by a charlatan. > hes the one who convinced me to stop investing in tesla. If thunderfoot is the sum of your research on these topics then you shouldn't have invested in the first place.
- penjelly 5y ago
  thunderfoot isnt the sum of my research. you just argued against buses in lieu of a solution 10x more expensive. its not about personal choice wanting to take a bus or not. its about economics. the loop currently costs more money then it takes to operate. i used to be an evangelist like you, but now i see it for what it is. hype and under delivery
  - panick21_ 5y ago
    I didn't argue against buses, buses are great. But the idea that because buses exist Boring company is wrong is idiotic. You can literally put a small bus in a loop. Sometimes you want to go underground, it just makes sense. And when you do doing that in those kind of tunnels makes sense. The Teslas at the moment are clearly just because its an easily available cheap platform. I think eventually we should move to 1-person or 2-person 3-wheeled pods and small buses or transport pods. A point to point high speed underground loop is an interesting idea with a lot of potential. As clearly pointed out by them, the long commercial viability depends on the tunneling cost. > i used to be an evangelist like you I'm not an evangelist. The fact is Boring company has commercial products and have successfully bid on some project. They are putting their money where their mouth is and investing in research and investing in loop systems. That is enough for me. I'm not gone dismiss it based on some 3rd rate yt research or industry experts who say 'this will never work'. I am happy to just watch and see what the come up with. As in other cases, people make fun of the initial version, after 3 iterations it looks decent and after 3 more iteration its a great system.

panick21_ 5y ago

> you have an extremely optimistic view. Its extremely optimistic that a company that is proven to be able t build EV at scale (literally the biggest EV company in the world) and is growing 50% a year can introduce a new EVs and work on research projects at the same time? That a company that is the largest buyer of batteries in the world can make strage systems with those batteries? Maybe the timelines are to short but the idea that its not realistic is just nonsense. > Loop NEEDS fsd because basically right now its a taxi service and every single driver needs to be paid. Again, just because it has drivers now doesn't mean it needs to be capable of FSD. Its an extremely limited well mapped area on dedicated lanes. Totally different requirement. > have you heard of buses? theyre economically cheaper Just because you prefer some other solution doesn't mean something you don't like isn't viable. > People have done the math on this and its contrary to your point. Are these the same people that said Tesla could never reach volume production, EV would never be profitable, orbital rockets couldn't land and that rocket reuse would never be economical? Again, can you please show me detailed cost model and not just 'people' (whole likely work for competitors) did some napkin math and said it wasn't competitive. > If you want contrary points just lookup thunderfoot on youtube You realize with this statement you have immediately disqualified yourself from any discussion. He is basically a youtube troll who generates clicks from gullible Musk hater. I mean seriously, his video are just embracing to watch in their incompetence. If you actually use him as a source for what works and what doesn't you have no credibility. In the space community, meaning people space journalist, and people who professionally analyze space his is basically regard as a joke. He directly contradicts what former SpaceX employees say, what former Astronauts say and so on. He doesn't believe things in offical NASA reports and so on. Literally no credibility. For Tesla you have people like Sandy Munro, former lead engineer at Ford and leading an independent shop consulting on automotive production with 50 years experience who comment on issues like production. And instead you believe some guy with no actual industry experience who clearly does not have accuracy as his first goal, but rather showing how much smarter he is. The guy is a joke that produces video like it was 2005. I mean if he is so amazingly smart that he can reason about every single engineering project in the world why can't he make a video that looks doesn't look like a 8 year old put together. Seriously, there are people on yt who spend 100s of hours researching videos, talking in detail to engineers from all over the industry and build connections, find publicly available papers and patents. TheLimitingFactor on yt validates each video with a number of experts on the subject before he releases it. While thunderfoot basically just spends 90% insulting people and then 10% showing some misleading data about something that he didn't understand in the first place. You have seriously been taking in by a charlatan. > hes the one who convinced me to stop investing in tesla. If thunderfoot is the sum of your research on these topics then you shouldn't have invested in the first place.

penjelly 5y ago
thunderfoot isnt the sum of my research. you just argued against buses in lieu of a solution 10x more expensive. its not about personal choice wanting to take a bus or not. its about economics. the loop currently costs more money then it takes to operate. i used to be an evangelist like you, but now i see it for what it is. hype and under delivery
- panick21_ 5y ago
  I didn't argue against buses, buses are great. But the idea that because buses exist Boring company is wrong is idiotic. You can literally put a small bus in a loop. Sometimes you want to go underground, it just makes sense. And when you do doing that in those kind of tunnels makes sense. The Teslas at the moment are clearly just because its an easily available cheap platform. I think eventually we should move to 1-person or 2-person 3-wheeled pods and small buses or transport pods. A point to point high speed underground loop is an interesting idea with a lot of potential. As clearly pointed out by them, the long commercial viability depends on the tunneling cost. > i used to be an evangelist like you I'm not an evangelist. The fact is Boring company has commercial products and have successfully bid on some project. They are putting their money where their mouth is and investing in research and investing in loop systems. That is enough for me. I'm not gone dismiss it based on some 3rd rate yt research or industry experts who say 'this will never work'. I am happy to just watch and see what the come up with. As in other cases, people make fun of the initial version, after 3 iterations it looks decent and after 3 more iteration its a great system.