5 ms·

Consciousness is a social construct. That's the problem.

Trasmatta 5y ago
Are you contending that somebody who grows up in complete social isolation would not be conscious? If so, that doesn't make sense. And besides, we currently have no way of knowing that consciousness actually exists in any being other than ourselves, so there would be no way to measure it to test your hypothesis. Until we have some way of doing that, I think it's more rational to assume all humans in a non catatonic state have some level of consciousness.
- dominotw 5y ago
  > Are you contending that somebody who grows up in complete social isolation would not be conscious? I read GP's comment that in this case that someone wouldn't have a concept of consciousness in his consciousness.
  - gshubert17 5y ago
    Could a person who grows up in complete social isolation learn (or invent) a language? If not, could such a person name things or have a way to think about maps and symbols (representations of things) in a way that could lead to consciousness?
    - Trasmatta 5y ago
      There are a number of interesting cases of people being raised without language, and then being studied later in life: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_deprivation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_deprivation I think it's a massive, massive stretch to make the claim that any of them weren't conscious.
goatlover 5y ago
Many animals are likely conscious. They feel pain and see colors, etc.
phdelightful 5y ago
Can you expand a bit more? Roughly speaking, someone has to tell you about consciousness before you can experience it? And how does that relate to a challenge of defining it?
- dominotw 5y ago
  > Roughly speaking, someone has to tell you about consciousness before you can experience it? What does it mean to experience consciousness?
  - Jensson 5y ago
    Are you a robot? If not you already know. The images you see, the feelings you feel, the smells etc, the fact that the something that gathers all of that into a neat packet to be experienced is the consciousness. Every human feels these things are special and thus experience consciousness but it has yet to be described by science how that works.
beaconstudios 5y ago
Consciousness as a grouping category of many aspects of mental experience is a social construct, for sure. But the subjective phenomena themselves are not.

Are you contending that somebody who grows up in complete social isolation would not be conscious? If so, that doesn't make sense. And besides, we currently have no way of knowing that consciousness actually exists in any being other than ourselves, so there would be no way to measure it to test your hypothesis. Until we have some way of doing that, I think it's more rational to assume all humans in a non catatonic state have some level of consciousness.

dominotw 5y ago
> Are you contending that somebody who grows up in complete social isolation would not be conscious? I read GP's comment that in this case that someone wouldn't have a concept of consciousness in his consciousness.
- gshubert17 5y ago
  Could a person who grows up in complete social isolation learn (or invent) a language? If not, could such a person name things or have a way to think about maps and symbols (representations of things) in a way that could lead to consciousness?
  - Trasmatta 5y ago
    There are a number of interesting cases of people being raised without language, and then being studied later in life: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_deprivation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_deprivation I think it's a massive, massive stretch to make the claim that any of them weren't conscious.

goatlover 5y ago

Many animals are likely conscious. They feel pain and see colors, etc.

phdelightful 5y ago

Can you expand a bit more? Roughly speaking, someone has to tell you about consciousness before you can experience it? And how does that relate to a challenge of defining it?

dominotw 5y ago
> Roughly speaking, someone has to tell you about consciousness before you can experience it? What does it mean to experience consciousness?
- Jensson 5y ago
  Are you a robot? If not you already know. The images you see, the feelings you feel, the smells etc, the fact that the something that gathers all of that into a neat packet to be experienced is the consciousness. Every human feels these things are special and thus experience consciousness but it has yet to be described by science how that works.

beaconstudios 5y ago

Consciousness as a grouping category of many aspects of mental experience is a social construct, for sure. But the subjective phenomena themselves are not.