4 ms·

blm is the status quo, that’s why speaking against blm gets people deplatformed.

by jjdin14 5y ago

downWidOutaFite 5y ago
If blm were the status quo the police would have been defunded.
- blitz_skull 5y ago
  I think a couple cities did that, and quickly back-tracked because crime shot up.
  - philosopher1234 5y ago
    Thats a robust and well researched opinion you have there.
    - hunterb123 5y ago
      He's not wrong, many cities defunded their police and then quickly reversed that decision, many adding more funds to their departments. It was a pretty big event so I know we all remember it as long as you follow current events, but it's easy to find articles mentioning it. https://www.wsj.com/articles/cities-reverse-defunding-the-police-amid-rising-crime-11622066307 https://www.wsj.com/articles/cities-reverse-defunding-the-po... https://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/us/2021/february/minneapolis-reverses-defund-the-police-efforts-approving-6-4-million-for-new-officers-after-widespread-ptsd https://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/us/2021/february/minneapolis-re... https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/portland-mayor-additional-police-funding-rise-crime https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/portland-mayor-addit...
      - philosopher1234 5y ago
        Have you evaluated, or even bothered to seek out, the literature that disagrees with you?
        hunterb123 5y ago
        That doesn't make any sense. It's not a philosophical view, it's an event in history and a matter of fact. Cities defunded police departments, crime went up, some of those same cities then later re-funded those departments, and even increased budgets. The crime statistics and city council laws passed support these claims, I have not found any claims disputing these facts. Even the left most leaning sources agree with these claims.
        philosopher1234 5y ago
        The interpretations, not the facts, are what I’m referencing.
        hunterb123 5y ago
        Such as?
        csnover 5y ago
        Hi, Minneapolitan here. I try not to wade into these sorts of discussions because it is usually unproductive or even counterproductive, but since you have expressed a sincere interest in talking about the facts of the situation, here’s what they actually are here. The police budget for MPD in 2014 was $145.6M for 850 officers. In 2020, the year you suggest they were defunded, the budget was $181.9M for 770 officers—a 38% increase per officer from 2014 (28.7% after adjusting for inflation)[0]. In fact, that department is ending the current fiscal year $5M under budget[1], and the current mayor has proposed an additional 17% expenditure increase for 2022.[2] The police in Minneapolis were never defunded. They have more money than ever. Efforts to introduce meaningful reforms (inaccurately called “defunding the police” by some) have also not been abandoned by the city council. We are currently voting on a charter amendment that would replace the Minneapolis Police Department with a new Department of Public Safety. The new department would still include police officers but would be coequal with all other departments in the city (it currently has a unique status where it is controlled exclusively by the mayor), and its focus would be on preventing crime instead of policing people. On the other hand, other parts of the city budget are underwater due to hundreds of former officers quitting and claiming PTSD[3], and the officers who remain are engaged in an intentional work slowdown[4] while blaming others[5] for what is a largely self-inflicted wound. What I think the other participant in this discussion was suggesting—and something that I would echo—is that your sources for news don’t seem to be giving you accurate information and you may want to reconsider using them as primary sources, at least on this topic. [0] https://minneapolismn.opengov.com/transparency https://minneapolismn.opengov.com/transparency [1] https://twitter.com/lisabendermpls/status/1450183987712909316 https://twitter.com/lisabendermpls/status/145018398771290931... (This is the Minneapolis city council president) [2] https://lims.minneapolismn.gov/Download/FileV2/24988/2022-Budget-Presentation_Police.pdf https://lims.minneapolismn.gov/Download/FileV2/24988/2022-Bu... [3] https://www.mprnews.org/story/2021/10/06/mpls-police-ptsd-claims-push-overall-workers-comp-claims-to-highest-in-a-decade https://www.mprnews.org/story/2021/10/06/mpls-police-ptsd-cl... [4] https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-policing-minneapolis/ https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-poli... [5] https://minnesotareformer.com/2021/10/20/mpd-cop-says-officers-have-taken-hands-off-approach-to-crime-fighting-blames-politicians-media/ https://minnesotareformer.com/2021/10/20/mpd-cop-says-office...
    - blitz_skull 5y ago
      No, it's not. It's a fact. Seeing as how you have the means to comment on Hacker News, you can easily fact-check this for yourself if you're concerned about its validity.
  - dghlsakjg 5y ago
    Which cities?
    - hunterb123 5y ago
      NYC, LA, Oakland, Baltimore, Portland, and Minneapolis at least https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9625629/REFUND-police-Cities-reversing-cuts-police-budgets-increasing-them.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9625629/REFUND-poli...
      - Redoubts 5y ago
        > The Democratic mayors of New York City, Baltimore and Los Angeles are among those now backpedaling on their vows So they didn't actually do anything.
        hunterb123 5y ago
        Some cities did defund in their budget, then reversed and refunded. Some cities backpedalled on their promise to defund and added to the budget instead. The existence of the latter scenario does not nullify the former.
    - singlow 5y ago
      Add Austin, TX, although there is a ballot initiative to restore the funding being voted on right now.
dd36 5y ago
The status quo is qualified immunity.

blm is the status quo, that’s why speaking against blm gets people deplatformed.

downWidOutaFite 5y ago

If blm were the status quo the police would have been defunded.

blitz_skull 5y ago
I think a couple cities did that, and quickly back-tracked because crime shot up.
- philosopher1234 5y ago
  Thats a robust and well researched opinion you have there.
  - hunterb123 5y ago
    He's not wrong, many cities defunded their police and then quickly reversed that decision, many adding more funds to their departments. It was a pretty big event so I know we all remember it as long as you follow current events, but it's easy to find articles mentioning it. https://www.wsj.com/articles/cities-reverse-defunding-the-police-amid-rising-crime-11622066307 https://www.wsj.com/articles/cities-reverse-defunding-the-po... https://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/us/2021/february/minneapolis-reverses-defund-the-police-efforts-approving-6-4-million-for-new-officers-after-widespread-ptsd https://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/us/2021/february/minneapolis-re... https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/portland-mayor-additional-police-funding-rise-crime https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/portland-mayor-addit...
    - philosopher1234 5y ago
      Have you evaluated, or even bothered to seek out, the literature that disagrees with you?
      - hunterb123 5y ago
        That doesn't make any sense. It's not a philosophical view, it's an event in history and a matter of fact. Cities defunded police departments, crime went up, some of those same cities then later re-funded those departments, and even increased budgets. The crime statistics and city council laws passed support these claims, I have not found any claims disputing these facts. Even the left most leaning sources agree with these claims.
        philosopher1234 5y ago
        The interpretations, not the facts, are what I’m referencing.
        hunterb123 5y ago
        Such as?
        csnover 5y ago
        Hi, Minneapolitan here. I try not to wade into these sorts of discussions because it is usually unproductive or even counterproductive, but since you have expressed a sincere interest in talking about the facts of the situation, here’s what they actually are here. The police budget for MPD in 2014 was $145.6M for 850 officers. In 2020, the year you suggest they were defunded, the budget was $181.9M for 770 officers—a 38% increase per officer from 2014 (28.7% after adjusting for inflation)[0]. In fact, that department is ending the current fiscal year $5M under budget[1], and the current mayor has proposed an additional 17% expenditure increase for 2022.[2] The police in Minneapolis were never defunded. They have more money than ever. Efforts to introduce meaningful reforms (inaccurately called “defunding the police” by some) have also not been abandoned by the city council. We are currently voting on a charter amendment that would replace the Minneapolis Police Department with a new Department of Public Safety. The new department would still include police officers but would be coequal with all other departments in the city (it currently has a unique status where it is controlled exclusively by the mayor), and its focus would be on preventing crime instead of policing people. On the other hand, other parts of the city budget are underwater due to hundreds of former officers quitting and claiming PTSD[3], and the officers who remain are engaged in an intentional work slowdown[4] while blaming others[5] for what is a largely self-inflicted wound. What I think the other participant in this discussion was suggesting—and something that I would echo—is that your sources for news don’t seem to be giving you accurate information and you may want to reconsider using them as primary sources, at least on this topic. [0] https://minneapolismn.opengov.com/transparency https://minneapolismn.opengov.com/transparency [1] https://twitter.com/lisabendermpls/status/1450183987712909316 https://twitter.com/lisabendermpls/status/145018398771290931... (This is the Minneapolis city council president) [2] https://lims.minneapolismn.gov/Download/FileV2/24988/2022-Budget-Presentation_Police.pdf https://lims.minneapolismn.gov/Download/FileV2/24988/2022-Bu... [3] https://www.mprnews.org/story/2021/10/06/mpls-police-ptsd-claims-push-overall-workers-comp-claims-to-highest-in-a-decade https://www.mprnews.org/story/2021/10/06/mpls-police-ptsd-cl... [4] https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-policing-minneapolis/ https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-poli... [5] https://minnesotareformer.com/2021/10/20/mpd-cop-says-officers-have-taken-hands-off-approach-to-crime-fighting-blames-politicians-media/ https://minnesotareformer.com/2021/10/20/mpd-cop-says-office...
  - blitz_skull 5y ago
    No, it's not. It's a fact. Seeing as how you have the means to comment on Hacker News, you can easily fact-check this for yourself if you're concerned about its validity.
- dghlsakjg 5y ago
  Which cities?
  - hunterb123 5y ago
    NYC, LA, Oakland, Baltimore, Portland, and Minneapolis at least https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9625629/REFUND-police-Cities-reversing-cuts-police-budgets-increasing-them.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9625629/REFUND-poli...
    - Redoubts 5y ago
      > The Democratic mayors of New York City, Baltimore and Los Angeles are among those now backpedaling on their vows So they didn't actually do anything.
      - hunterb123 5y ago
        Some cities did defund in their budget, then reversed and refunded. Some cities backpedalled on their promise to defund and added to the budget instead. The existence of the latter scenario does not nullify the former.
  - singlow 5y ago
    Add Austin, TX, although there is a ballot initiative to restore the funding being voted on right now.

dd36 5y ago

The status quo is qualified immunity.