5 ms·

Anyone got a tldr for a Brit staring at a paywall?

Macha 5y ago
Reader mode works, in Firefox at least. It's nothing new for a frequent reader of HN. California ran a trial of automatic tax filings in 2005, Intuit persuaded the IRS to adopt no such system, the government mandated a free file system run by the commercial providers for eligible people, the providers used dark patterns to direct free file eligible users to paid options. Current democrats and former california republicans are quoted as being for actual automatic filing, some anecodotes from people who had been pushed by the software companies to paid options.
Closi 5y ago
Basically, as a fellow Brit you will know that for most people your tax just happens automatically (typically through the PAYE system, so tax is taken before you get your paycheck, and we never have to even think about it). Then in the UK if you have more complex tax affairs, then you have to fill in a self assessment on the government portal (where it already knows most of your tax information, and you are pretty much just making disclosures). And it's VERY rare that people have to hire an accountant (only for people who own businesses, or individuals with the moxt complex tax affairs). Well in the USA they don't have any of that, and everyone has to file their own taxes. The USA has the capability to do automated tax like in the UK, however the companies who sell the tax software petitioned the government to make sure that they didn't implement it so they can continue to get $$$ out of everyone else.
- fighterpilot 5y ago
  Do private tax prep companies have an argument they advance about why automatic filing is a bad idea? Or is it just pure behind scenes lobbying?
  - mcherm 5y ago
    The argument that they advance is that if we allowed government supported automatic filing, then people would no longer be able to take advantage of the free filing program that Intuit offers to low income households. What they don't mention is that this free filing offer is used by significantly less than 5% of the eligible taxpayers. Probably because Intuit advertises it very little and within the product very heavily hints that you should switch to a paid product instead.
  - Macha 5y ago
    My understanding is the two pro arguments for manual filing are: If taxpayers aren't forced to confront the details of their tax payments every time they do a filing, they're less likely to complain about high taxes (this comes with the implication that high taxes are inherently bad, which depends on your political leaning) Taxpayers may just accept the automatic deduction without realising they're being overcharged in the event of an error, for years at a time. How much they actually care about such arguments vs the threat to their business model is subjective, but it seems the majority on this site (and myself) don't buy it.
    - fighterpilot 5y ago
      Is there a privacy/surveillance aspect to the argument? Or is the data that the IRS will collect the same either way?
      - Macha 5y ago
        They already have the data. Even if they didn't already have it, it's the same data they would mandate you to send them in the tax filing
    - brainwipe 5y ago
      Thanks for the input. I understand the concerns. As a Brit who checks his taxes, I've only been overcharged once when I changed jobs and the rebate was fixed the following month (I paid less tax that month). I do still have to file if I take a second contract weekend-work but it's not difficult.
- mrep 5y ago
  Oh the USA does do automated taxes, they just don't tell you what number they came up with until after you file.
- mike503 5y ago
  Just FYI, in the US there are actually not just accountants but tax professionals. Accountants will tell you “I’m not a tax guy” and tax guys will tell you “I’m not an accountant” Taxes are so convoluted and constantly changing that a separate class of number crunchers are maintained for it. (I’m sure someone could wear both hats, but in my experience they don’t or can’t. Too many requirements for maintaining both?)
- brainwipe 5y ago
  Thanks for the deets. I've never needed an accountant/tax person, even when I was working 2 tech jobs.

Reader mode works, in Firefox at least. It's nothing new for a frequent reader of HN. California ran a trial of automatic tax filings in 2005, Intuit persuaded the IRS to adopt no such system, the government mandated a free file system run by the commercial providers for eligible people, the providers used dark patterns to direct free file eligible users to paid options. Current democrats and former california republicans are quoted as being for actual automatic filing, some anecodotes from people who had been pushed by the software companies to paid options.

Closi 5y ago

Basically, as a fellow Brit you will know that for most people your tax just happens automatically (typically through the PAYE system, so tax is taken before you get your paycheck, and we never have to even think about it). Then in the UK if you have more complex tax affairs, then you have to fill in a self assessment on the government portal (where it already knows most of your tax information, and you are pretty much just making disclosures). And it's VERY rare that people have to hire an accountant (only for people who own businesses, or individuals with the moxt complex tax affairs). Well in the USA they don't have any of that, and everyone has to file their own taxes. The USA has the capability to do automated tax like in the UK, however the companies who sell the tax software petitioned the government to make sure that they didn't implement it so they can continue to get $$$ out of everyone else.

fighterpilot 5y ago
Do private tax prep companies have an argument they advance about why automatic filing is a bad idea? Or is it just pure behind scenes lobbying?
- mcherm 5y ago
  The argument that they advance is that if we allowed government supported automatic filing, then people would no longer be able to take advantage of the free filing program that Intuit offers to low income households. What they don't mention is that this free filing offer is used by significantly less than 5% of the eligible taxpayers. Probably because Intuit advertises it very little and within the product very heavily hints that you should switch to a paid product instead.
- Macha 5y ago
  My understanding is the two pro arguments for manual filing are: If taxpayers aren't forced to confront the details of their tax payments every time they do a filing, they're less likely to complain about high taxes (this comes with the implication that high taxes are inherently bad, which depends on your political leaning) Taxpayers may just accept the automatic deduction without realising they're being overcharged in the event of an error, for years at a time. How much they actually care about such arguments vs the threat to their business model is subjective, but it seems the majority on this site (and myself) don't buy it.
  - fighterpilot 5y ago
    Is there a privacy/surveillance aspect to the argument? Or is the data that the IRS will collect the same either way?
    - Macha 5y ago
      They already have the data. Even if they didn't already have it, it's the same data they would mandate you to send them in the tax filing
  - brainwipe 5y ago
    Thanks for the input. I understand the concerns. As a Brit who checks his taxes, I've only been overcharged once when I changed jobs and the rebate was fixed the following month (I paid less tax that month). I do still have to file if I take a second contract weekend-work but it's not difficult.
mrep 5y ago
Oh the USA does do automated taxes, they just don't tell you what number they came up with until after you file.
mike503 5y ago
Just FYI, in the US there are actually not just accountants but tax professionals. Accountants will tell you “I’m not a tax guy” and tax guys will tell you “I’m not an accountant” Taxes are so convoluted and constantly changing that a separate class of number crunchers are maintained for it. (I’m sure someone could wear both hats, but in my experience they don’t or can’t. Too many requirements for maintaining both?)
brainwipe 5y ago
Thanks for the deets. I've never needed an accountant/tax person, even when I was working 2 tech jobs.