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Wait, you mean developers will be able to write apps that take full advantage of the OS through background process and system hooks, then distribute them withou

Wait, you mean developers will be able to write apps that take full advantage of the OS through background process and system hooks, then distribute them without paying for keys or being vetted by a capricious bureaucrat?! AND they'll give users a choice as to what to do with their own phones?! Quelle Horreur! I've always maintained that Apple's iPhone restrictions are bullshit political decisions and have nothing to do with the protecting users from viruses and malicious apps. IF Jobs and his defenders are correct, then surely Android will succumb to horrible attacks, viruses, scamware etc. Well, the handset is shipping soon, so I definitely look forward to proving (nearly) everyone wrong :)

tstegart 18y ago
What will you do if the carrier won't let you run all these nice programs?
- martythemaniak 18y ago
  Capitalism, dude. Carriers don't control apps on smartphones (BB, WinMo etc) the way they control apps on feature phones. Were a carrier to do it, it would place them at a HUGE disadvantage against all other carriers that have Android devices. In other words, not gonna happen.
  - tstegart 18y ago
    They don't control the apps, but they control their networks. Your theory only works if money can be made even when these fancy applications are being used. If a carrier loses money when people start using these apps (for example, maybe a VIOP app) on their smartphones, there is no incentive to be competitive. They'll just get rid of you as a customer, and no other carrier will want you or your smartphone on their network. So getting rid of you would actually be an advantage. Now, common public perception is that carriers actually make a ton of money and that they could allow these apps and still make money (I think this is true, actually). But that doesn't mean that carrier concerns won't play into the equation. In all seriousness, Steve Jobs didn't make up those categories Apple wouldn't allow in the App Store out of thin air, they are all carrier concerns. So why would a carrier want to allow massive amounts of Android phones using massive amounts of data, not paying for big voice plans and slowing down their network? I think a better reality is that either the carriers will block your fancy app on their network, or they'll charge you extra for all the data and whatnot those fancy apps will use. So yes, you can develop a more open app, but using it is another matter.
    - mattmaroon 18y ago
      I don't think carriers will be able to do much about it. They'll be in much the same position ISPs are in now. They might limit the amount of data you can use for a given service plan per month. It will be very hard for them to discriminate between a VOIP app and any other though. We've already seen the cat and mouse shenanigans that go on with ISPs and now even American Airlines. The ISPs aren't winning. You cannot stop a bunch of smart, determined people from doing what they want with an open platform. Developers like the ones who read this site are just too much. Regardless, carriers clearly realize that data is the future of their industry. There is no growth left in voice services. They're moving in that direction full-force. They want this.
    - stcredzero 18y ago
      What if everything is through encrypted connections? It will be hard for the carriers to identify what's a particular service. Also, if there is robust market demand for services, the proliferation of servers will be too much for the carriers to stay on top of. There will be a market for multi-service proxies, so the carriers won't be able to target a particular service and cut it off by simply cutting off particular servers. They will need to employ strong-arm tactics, which will make them vulnerable to legislation.
stcredzero 18y ago
The background processes bugaboo is FUD. It can be solved by virtualization. By using a VM, you can ensure that the background processes never exceed a certain fraction of system resources. (Like 5% or 10%) Just have the OS require that background processes be specially registered with the system, then run them on their own VM. Likewise, the technology exists to sandbox apps.

tstegart 18y ago

What will you do if the carrier won't let you run all these nice programs?

martythemaniak 18y ago
Capitalism, dude. Carriers don't control apps on smartphones (BB, WinMo etc) the way they control apps on feature phones. Were a carrier to do it, it would place them at a HUGE disadvantage against all other carriers that have Android devices. In other words, not gonna happen.
- tstegart 18y ago
  They don't control the apps, but they control their networks. Your theory only works if money can be made even when these fancy applications are being used. If a carrier loses money when people start using these apps (for example, maybe a VIOP app) on their smartphones, there is no incentive to be competitive. They'll just get rid of you as a customer, and no other carrier will want you or your smartphone on their network. So getting rid of you would actually be an advantage. Now, common public perception is that carriers actually make a ton of money and that they could allow these apps and still make money (I think this is true, actually). But that doesn't mean that carrier concerns won't play into the equation. In all seriousness, Steve Jobs didn't make up those categories Apple wouldn't allow in the App Store out of thin air, they are all carrier concerns. So why would a carrier want to allow massive amounts of Android phones using massive amounts of data, not paying for big voice plans and slowing down their network? I think a better reality is that either the carriers will block your fancy app on their network, or they'll charge you extra for all the data and whatnot those fancy apps will use. So yes, you can develop a more open app, but using it is another matter.
  - mattmaroon 18y ago
    I don't think carriers will be able to do much about it. They'll be in much the same position ISPs are in now. They might limit the amount of data you can use for a given service plan per month. It will be very hard for them to discriminate between a VOIP app and any other though. We've already seen the cat and mouse shenanigans that go on with ISPs and now even American Airlines. The ISPs aren't winning. You cannot stop a bunch of smart, determined people from doing what they want with an open platform. Developers like the ones who read this site are just too much. Regardless, carriers clearly realize that data is the future of their industry. There is no growth left in voice services. They're moving in that direction full-force. They want this.
  - stcredzero 18y ago
    What if everything is through encrypted connections? It will be hard for the carriers to identify what's a particular service. Also, if there is robust market demand for services, the proliferation of servers will be too much for the carriers to stay on top of. There will be a market for multi-service proxies, so the carriers won't be able to target a particular service and cut it off by simply cutting off particular servers. They will need to employ strong-arm tactics, which will make them vulnerable to legislation.

stcredzero 18y ago

The background processes bugaboo is FUD. It can be solved by virtualization. By using a VM, you can ensure that the background processes never exceed a certain fraction of system resources. (Like 5% or 10%) Just have the OS require that background processes be specially registered with the system, then run them on their own VM. Likewise, the technology exists to sandbox apps.