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You are pulling a straw man I've even been careful to avoid since I noticed it: > you're better off not bothering" Nowhere in my comments did I say that it's

by Lutger 5y ago

You are pulling a straw man I've even been careful to avoid since I noticed it: > you're better off not bothering" Nowhere in my comments did I say that it's better to not recycle. I've even made the same argument as you did regarding EV elsewhere, debunking the idea that because EV isn't perfect, it's not worth the effort. I've said "I still recycle myself" and "Of course recycling as a mechanism is part of a sustainable economy". I do not have, expressed or implied, anything like that recycling plastic is a bad idea. I don't know how to make that point clearer. My point however, is that it isn't a solution and convincing the public that it is, was a deceptive corporate propaganda campaign by the leading beverage and packaging corporations, designed to avoid taking responsibility and more drastic actions.[1] It's painful, but the green movement must recognize it has been misled and that recycling is really not enough, not by a long shot. > plastic is unavoidable in modern society This doesn't mean we can't significantly reduce our consumption of single use plastic and avoid a substantial amount of plastic usage, which is only increasing. [1] https://www.chicagotribune.com/opinion/commentary/ct-perspec-indian-crying-environment-ads-pollution-1123-20171113-story.html https://www.chicagotribune.com/opinion/commentary/ct-perspec...

ZeroGravitas 5y ago
I know you understood this for EVs and renewables, that's why I pointed out that I think you have fallen for it when it comes to recyling plastic. You said this: > Clearly, recycling plastic isn't green. It's only ever so slightly less harmful. You didn't need to emphasise how little you think recycling helps. I take it to mean "it's better to just not use plastic" and agree but as I said, on a society wide scale that is simply not happening so advertising that attitude to other people, who certainly will not stop using plastic, spreads the meme that recycling is basically useless and that is a bad strategy. Which coincidentally is the same message that fossil fuel providers push. Collectively we need to use less and recycle the stuff we do use efficiently. As I said, there's no downsides to this, nor any conflict between those two things any more than saying we should use both wind and solar. You don't use solar when wind makes more sense nor vice versa. But if you personally decide to install solar panels because that works well for you, it's not helpful to say "wind is not green, just ever so slightly less harmful". We need both, both are better than the status quo.

by Lutger 5y ago

ZeroGravitas 5y ago

I know you understood this for EVs and renewables, that's why I pointed out that I think you have fallen for it when it comes to recyling plastic. You said this: > Clearly, recycling plastic isn't green. It's only ever so slightly less harmful. You didn't need to emphasise how little you think recycling helps. I take it to mean "it's better to just not use plastic" and agree but as I said, on a society wide scale that is simply not happening so advertising that attitude to other people, who certainly will not stop using plastic, spreads the meme that recycling is basically useless and that is a bad strategy. Which coincidentally is the same message that fossil fuel providers push. Collectively we need to use less and recycle the stuff we do use efficiently. As I said, there's no downsides to this, nor any conflict between those two things any more than saying we should use both wind and solar. You don't use solar when wind makes more sense nor vice versa. But if you personally decide to install solar panels because that works well for you, it's not helpful to say "wind is not green, just ever so slightly less harmful". We need both, both are better than the status quo.