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Would be interesting to know whats going on in the industry with LFP. Pre-built lead acid replacement LFP battery prices have been dropping almost daily and are

Would be interesting to know whats going on in the industry with LFP. Pre-built lead acid replacement LFP battery prices have been dropping almost daily and are down to high end AGM prices [1] and quality has been going up [2], these batteries were twice the price a year ago. Will be replacing the lead acid in my RV soon with LFP's, it really a no brainer. 1. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08FMTRYPT https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08FMTRYPT 2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBonGQe363g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBonGQe363g

diggernet 5y ago
Last I heard, LFP had some significant temperature restrictions compared to lead acid, making them unsuitable for use in cold temperatures. Has that changed?
Tade0 5y ago
Basically people figured out how to make them energy dense: https://pushevs.com/2021/01/10/guoxuan-unveils-a-cobalt-free-lfp-pouch-battery-cell-with-212-wh-kg/ https://pushevs.com/2021/01/10/guoxuan-unveils-a-cobalt-free... Without compromising on cost.
antoniuschan99 5y ago
LFP/LifePo4 is definitely top of the line now. I just bought a GoLabs Portable Power Station https://gotrax.com/products/golabs-r300-portable-powerstation https://gotrax.com/products/golabs-r300-portable-powerstatio... Pretty much all the good Solar Panel/Wind Power Stations use LifePo4. Check out the bestsellers in outdoor generators: https://www.amazon.ca/gp/bestsellers/lawn-garden/6257187011/ref=zg_b_bs_6257187011_1 https://www.amazon.ca/gp/bestsellers/lawn-garden/6257187011/...
jtbayly 5y ago
Can you help me understand why you wouldn't just stay with the old Lead-Acid batteries? You can get a 150Ah for $110, for example, whereas this 100Ah you linked to is $376. I'm sure there are benefits, but I don't know much about batteries to understand why you'd make that tradeoff.
- dlmiller 5y ago
  Conventional Lead Acid or AGM batteries get somewhere around 500-700 cycles before the battery is bad. With Lithium iron phosphate batteries the charge cycles are in the 5000-9000 cycle range. TLDR: They can be discharged significantly more times than conventional lead acid batteries.
- andruby 5y ago
  You can't discharge lead-acid as deeply as LFP without destroying longevity. So that 150Ah, probably only has 75Ah of useable capacity. The LFP battery will also last for ~5000 cycles, after which it'll still have ~80% capacity, and thus is still valuable. Lead acid only has a life of 500~1200 cycles. In other words: you'll have replaced the lead acid battery 4~10 times before you need to replace the LFP. IIRC, lead acid has a higher voltage drop when drawing a lot of current. Meaning that with LFP you can power larger loads. Taken together, for most use-cases, the lifetime TCO of LFP is better than lead acid.
  - JKCalhoun 5y ago
    Also, LFP weigh less than lead-acid.
  - tzs 5y ago
    > The LFP battery will also last for ~5000 cycles, after which it'll still have ~80% capacity, and thus is still valuable. Lead acid only has a life of 500~1200 cycles. In other words: you'll have replaced the lead acid battery 4~10 times before you need to replace the LFP. What happens if you keep using the LFP battery after that? Does the capacity continue to fall to zero, or is there some point it levels off and you can use it indefinitely after that if you don't mind the reduced capacity?
    - andruby 5y ago
      The curve seems to be pretty lineair. So I think you can do another 5k cycles and have 60% left, once more for 40% etc. A quick search didn’t reveal a full curve chart to zero though. I know that a lot of cheaper LFP cells on aliexpress are used “grade B” cells, eg cells that had an original capacity of 120Ah that are resold as 90Ah cells after their first 5k cycles. There is a chart for 3k cycles here: https://www.ctechigroup.com/deep-cycle-life-lifepo4-cell-3-2v-280ah-for-electric-truck https://www.ctechigroup.com/deep-cycle-life-lifepo4-cell-3-2...
JKCalhoun 5y ago
Ouch, paid 3 times that two years ago when building out my RV. They have been dropping in price. I like.

diggernet 5y ago

Last I heard, LFP had some significant temperature restrictions compared to lead acid, making them unsuitable for use in cold temperatures. Has that changed?

Tade0 5y ago

Basically people figured out how to make them energy dense: https://pushevs.com/2021/01/10/guoxuan-unveils-a-cobalt-free-lfp-pouch-battery-cell-with-212-wh-kg/ https://pushevs.com/2021/01/10/guoxuan-unveils-a-cobalt-free... Without compromising on cost.

antoniuschan99 5y ago

LFP/LifePo4 is definitely top of the line now. I just bought a GoLabs Portable Power Station https://gotrax.com/products/golabs-r300-portable-powerstation https://gotrax.com/products/golabs-r300-portable-powerstatio... Pretty much all the good Solar Panel/Wind Power Stations use LifePo4. Check out the bestsellers in outdoor generators: https://www.amazon.ca/gp/bestsellers/lawn-garden/6257187011/ref=zg_b_bs_6257187011_1 https://www.amazon.ca/gp/bestsellers/lawn-garden/6257187011/...

jtbayly 5y ago

Can you help me understand why you wouldn't just stay with the old Lead-Acid batteries? You can get a 150Ah for $110, for example, whereas this 100Ah you linked to is $376. I'm sure there are benefits, but I don't know much about batteries to understand why you'd make that tradeoff.

dlmiller 5y ago
Conventional Lead Acid or AGM batteries get somewhere around 500-700 cycles before the battery is bad. With Lithium iron phosphate batteries the charge cycles are in the 5000-9000 cycle range. TLDR: They can be discharged significantly more times than conventional lead acid batteries.
andruby 5y ago
You can't discharge lead-acid as deeply as LFP without destroying longevity. So that 150Ah, probably only has 75Ah of useable capacity. The LFP battery will also last for ~5000 cycles, after which it'll still have ~80% capacity, and thus is still valuable. Lead acid only has a life of 500~1200 cycles. In other words: you'll have replaced the lead acid battery 4~10 times before you need to replace the LFP. IIRC, lead acid has a higher voltage drop when drawing a lot of current. Meaning that with LFP you can power larger loads. Taken together, for most use-cases, the lifetime TCO of LFP is better than lead acid.
- JKCalhoun 5y ago
  Also, LFP weigh less than lead-acid.
- tzs 5y ago
  > The LFP battery will also last for ~5000 cycles, after which it'll still have ~80% capacity, and thus is still valuable. Lead acid only has a life of 500~1200 cycles. In other words: you'll have replaced the lead acid battery 4~10 times before you need to replace the LFP. What happens if you keep using the LFP battery after that? Does the capacity continue to fall to zero, or is there some point it levels off and you can use it indefinitely after that if you don't mind the reduced capacity?
  - andruby 5y ago
    The curve seems to be pretty lineair. So I think you can do another 5k cycles and have 60% left, once more for 40% etc. A quick search didn’t reveal a full curve chart to zero though. I know that a lot of cheaper LFP cells on aliexpress are used “grade B” cells, eg cells that had an original capacity of 120Ah that are resold as 90Ah cells after their first 5k cycles. There is a chart for 3k cycles here: https://www.ctechigroup.com/deep-cycle-life-lifepo4-cell-3-2v-280ah-for-electric-truck https://www.ctechigroup.com/deep-cycle-life-lifepo4-cell-3-2...

JKCalhoun 5y ago

Ouch, paid 3 times that two years ago when building out my RV. They have been dropping in price. I like.