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I hear this point raised often with no scientific evidence ever offered to back it up. Actually, some recent research found that the vaccinated were more likely

I hear this point raised often with no scientific evidence ever offered to back it up. Actually, some recent research found that the vaccinated were more likely to host antibody-resistant escape variants (in this case Delta): https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.19.21262139v1 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.19.21262139v... A similar effect has been observed for leaky vaccines in chickens, where for Marek's disease they actually encouraged the breeding of hotter and more virulent strains. In terms of playing host to new variants the biggest risk may be the immunocompromised, who are not able to be vaccinated: https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/03/11/immunocompromised-patients-covid-variants/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/03/11/immunocompr...

nuerow 5y ago
> I hear this point raised often with no scientific evidence ever offered to back it up. Oh really? In that case I'm sorry to tell you that you are totally oblivious to how very basic princples of biology work. Here's a helpful reading. https://now.tufts.edu/articles/how-viruses-mutate-and-create-new-variants https://now.tufts.edu/articles/how-viruses-mutate-and-create... It's litteraly the first search hit from a very basic google search, which goes to show how well informed is your remark on "no scientific evidence".
- AndrewBissell 5y ago
  This isn't scientific evidence, it's theoretical discussion and a priori reasoning.
mullingitover 5y ago
> In terms of playing host to new variants the biggest risk may be the immunocompromised, who are not able to be vaccinated The immunocompromised absolutely can be vaccinated, it just might not work as well for them, see: Powell, Colin The best way to keep these immunocompromised people from becoming infected and playing host to a variant factory is to vaccinate everyone around them, even 19 year olds and elementary students who themselves aren't in as high of a risk category personally. The fact that the vaccine isn't perfect only makes it more essential that everyone is vaccinated - if the vaccine were perfect we might get to herd immunity with 70% of the population vaccinated, but with a less effective vaccine we need even higher numbers to get there. The vaccine hesitant are only dragging out the pandemic further and creating new risks.
- AndrewBissell 5y ago
  "The worse the vaccines work the more we need to mandate them"? Herd immunity is not going to happen with Covid, it's a pipe dream. Certainly not with vaccines with a peak 37% effectiveness against the currently dominant variant which wanes after a few months (cf. the Nature article I referenced elsewhere in the thread), never mind ones that might arise in the future in response to evolutionary pressures created by mass vaccination. The vaccine hesitant are not dragging out the "pandemic," the people complying with undemocratic diktats and mandates are. The people running this show have no intention of ever letting you go back to normal -- the draconian restrictions still being applied to 95%+ vaccinated college campuses make this clear. If you need counterexamples to your baseless notion that mass vaccination will prevent COVID outbreaks have a look at Singapore or Gibraltar, or the case studies of outbreaks in 95% vaccinated hospitals and care homes. But I suppose there is no evidence that could possibly change your mind on this -- after all, the worse the vaccines are, the more we need to push them on people.

nuerow 5y ago

> I hear this point raised often with no scientific evidence ever offered to back it up. Oh really? In that case I'm sorry to tell you that you are totally oblivious to how very basic princples of biology work. Here's a helpful reading. https://now.tufts.edu/articles/how-viruses-mutate-and-create-new-variants https://now.tufts.edu/articles/how-viruses-mutate-and-create... It's litteraly the first search hit from a very basic google search, which goes to show how well informed is your remark on "no scientific evidence".

AndrewBissell 5y ago
This isn't scientific evidence, it's theoretical discussion and a priori reasoning.

mullingitover 5y ago

> In terms of playing host to new variants the biggest risk may be the immunocompromised, who are not able to be vaccinated The immunocompromised absolutely can be vaccinated, it just might not work as well for them, see: Powell, Colin The best way to keep these immunocompromised people from becoming infected and playing host to a variant factory is to vaccinate everyone around them, even 19 year olds and elementary students who themselves aren't in as high of a risk category personally. The fact that the vaccine isn't perfect only makes it more essential that everyone is vaccinated - if the vaccine were perfect we might get to herd immunity with 70% of the population vaccinated, but with a less effective vaccine we need even higher numbers to get there. The vaccine hesitant are only dragging out the pandemic further and creating new risks.

AndrewBissell 5y ago
"The worse the vaccines work the more we need to mandate them"? Herd immunity is not going to happen with Covid, it's a pipe dream. Certainly not with vaccines with a peak 37% effectiveness against the currently dominant variant which wanes after a few months (cf. the Nature article I referenced elsewhere in the thread), never mind ones that might arise in the future in response to evolutionary pressures created by mass vaccination. The vaccine hesitant are not dragging out the "pandemic," the people complying with undemocratic diktats and mandates are. The people running this show have no intention of ever letting you go back to normal -- the draconian restrictions still being applied to 95%+ vaccinated college campuses make this clear. If you need counterexamples to your baseless notion that mass vaccination will prevent COVID outbreaks have a look at Singapore or Gibraltar, or the case studies of outbreaks in 95% vaccinated hospitals and care homes. But I suppose there is no evidence that could possibly change your mind on this -- after all, the worse the vaccines are, the more we need to push them on people.