5 ms·

Blanket rules like "never use `goto`" are generally not great. A big part of the job of a software developer is knowing when to use what bits of a language. So

by 0xTJ 5y ago

Blanket rules like "never use `goto`" are generally not great. A big part of the job of a software developer is knowing when to use what bits of a language. Sometimes code with `goto` is simply easier to understand. You have to be careful, but dismissing it completely is throwing out a tool.

mikevm 5y ago
People who give blanket rules such as never to use `goto` clearly do not understand where this idea comes from or why it should not be used. Many years ago in my undergrad I submitted a programming assignment in C which used `goto` for cleanup, as is customarily done in the Linux Kernel and other C software and I had points taken off for using `goto`. Heh.
- SAI_Peregrinus 5y ago
  Should've used setjmp/longjmp to do the same thing. Make it even harder to reason about.
- munificent 5y ago
  > People who give blanket rules such as never to use `goto` clearly do not understand where this idea comes from or why it should not be used. The idea comes from Dijkstra and he sure as hell did consider it a blanket rule: "I became convinced that the go to statement should be abolished from all 'higher level' programming languages (i.e. everything except, perhaps, machine code)."
  - bgorman 5y ago
    C is portable machine code :)
    - munificent 5y ago
      Not in Dijkstra's time it wasn't.
    - krapp 5y ago
      On any modern system it really isn't[0,1]. [0]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16967675 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16967675 [1]https://queue.acm.org/detail.cfm?id=3212479 https://queue.acm.org/detail.cfm?id=3212479
TheCapn 5y ago
It's a rule given to those still learning the craft. Some people just don't realize that once you gain a level of expertise you should question the rules you were given and make educated decisions on whether those rules were just guard rails to help you learn or actual constraints put in for a real purpose. When I was early on in code I abused the GOTO, once I learned it was taboo, I was forced to learn how to structure functions/statements in a way that flowed smoothly and created readability in the code that wasn't there before. Now that I understand the pitfalls, I use goto primarily in the "Bailing Out" form described int he link. To try and force the code to do what it does without the goto would likely create a bigger mess as I'd just be nesting statements beyond ever growing if-else branches designed to kick out when failure conditions occurred.
atq2119 5y ago
A lot of software engineering techniques are more about managing mediocrity than fostering excellence. They go overboard with the prescriptions. This may well produce better results when you have an army of mediocre developers. It tends to frustrate excellent developers though, so it's a tricky weapon to wield. Of course, it also tends to frustrate those who only think they're excellent.

by 0xTJ 5y ago

mikevm 5y ago

People who give blanket rules such as never to use `goto` clearly do not understand where this idea comes from or why it should not be used. Many years ago in my undergrad I submitted a programming assignment in C which used `goto` for cleanup, as is customarily done in the Linux Kernel and other C software and I had points taken off for using `goto`. Heh.

SAI_Peregrinus 5y ago
Should've used setjmp/longjmp to do the same thing. Make it even harder to reason about.
munificent 5y ago
> People who give blanket rules such as never to use `goto` clearly do not understand where this idea comes from or why it should not be used. The idea comes from Dijkstra and he sure as hell did consider it a blanket rule: "I became convinced that the go to statement should be abolished from all 'higher level' programming languages (i.e. everything except, perhaps, machine code)."
- bgorman 5y ago
  C is portable machine code :)
  - munificent 5y ago
    Not in Dijkstra's time it wasn't.
  - krapp 5y ago
    On any modern system it really isn't[0,1]. [0]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16967675 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16967675 [1]https://queue.acm.org/detail.cfm?id=3212479 https://queue.acm.org/detail.cfm?id=3212479

TheCapn 5y ago

It's a rule given to those still learning the craft. Some people just don't realize that once you gain a level of expertise you should question the rules you were given and make educated decisions on whether those rules were just guard rails to help you learn or actual constraints put in for a real purpose. When I was early on in code I abused the GOTO, once I learned it was taboo, I was forced to learn how to structure functions/statements in a way that flowed smoothly and created readability in the code that wasn't there before. Now that I understand the pitfalls, I use goto primarily in the "Bailing Out" form described int he link. To try and force the code to do what it does without the goto would likely create a bigger mess as I'd just be nesting statements beyond ever growing if-else branches designed to kick out when failure conditions occurred.

atq2119 5y ago

A lot of software engineering techniques are more about managing mediocrity than fostering excellence. They go overboard with the prescriptions. This may well produce better results when you have an army of mediocre developers. It tends to frustrate excellent developers though, so it's a tricky weapon to wield. Of course, it also tends to frustrate those who only think they're excellent.