6 ms·

Ah, didn't expect the venerable Meletus to show up in the conversation today. How's the weather in Athens? > sentenced to death because he was deliberately ann

Ah, didn't expect the venerable Meletus to show up in the conversation today. How's the weather in Athens? > sentenced to death because he was deliberately annoying people I see you're still certain of Socrates' motives. When you claimed he was 'corrupting the minds of the youth' and 'denying the gods of the city' you were simply repeating the charges laid at any philosopher who threatens the powers that be. If anyone asks too many uncomfortable but honest questions these days, in some societies you will still be met with death, though here we have a milder but still harsh punishment known as 'deplatforming'. But more to the point, if you are so certain of what you know, you could explain it and wouldn't find questions 'annoying'. Frustration justifies the case, because it means you really do know nothing but simply aren't honest enough to admit it.

lugged 5y ago
Facts don't care about your feelings and the truth doesn't hurt points of view that are legitimate.
- ben_w 5y ago
  I’m not sure what this has to do with an ancient Athenian philosopher being stoned to death for saying things other people didn’t want to hear, such as “I can’t possibly be both an atheist and worship false gods”. Care to elaborate?
  - lugged 5y ago
    Just a modern rif on the same statement made above.
- notenoughbeans 5y ago
  Didn't expect a quote from Tom Macdonald when I opened HN this morning.
- psd1 5y ago
  Maybe not, but opinions about how we should conduct our societies depend on feelings, and things that appear true but are subtly wrong can cause great harm.
- strken 5y ago
  Here's a gigantic PDF listing ways the truth can hurt all kinds of things: https://www.nickbostrom.com/information-hazards.pdf https://www.nickbostrom.com/information-hazards.pdf
  - lugged 5y ago
    What's your point? I didn't say the truth was harmless. Just that it doesn't hurt points of view that are legitimate. Illigitimate views and your feelings may still suffer from hearing the truth. My point is that the facts don't care.
    - strken 5y ago
      My point is that you can use true facts to give an impression that is false, as documented in the pdf. Therefore, completely true facts can make you believe a falsehood. Therefore, the truth can harm a point of view that is legitimate.
dd36 5y ago
Who has been deplatformed for questioning the status quo? Isn’t literally all of BLM challenging the status quo?
- jjdin14 5y ago
  blm is the status quo, that’s why speaking against blm gets people deplatformed.
  - downWidOutaFite 5y ago
    If blm were the status quo the police would have been defunded.
    - blitz_skull 5y ago
      I think a couple cities did that, and quickly back-tracked because crime shot up.
      - philosopher1234 5y ago
        Thats a robust and well researched opinion you have there.
        hunterb123 5y ago
        He's not wrong, many cities defunded their police and then quickly reversed that decision, many adding more funds to their departments. It was a pretty big event so I know we all remember it as long as you follow current events, but it's easy to find articles mentioning it. https://www.wsj.com/articles/cities-reverse-defunding-the-police-amid-rising-crime-11622066307 https://www.wsj.com/articles/cities-reverse-defunding-the-po... https://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/us/2021/february/minneapolis-reverses-defund-the-police-efforts-approving-6-4-million-for-new-officers-after-widespread-ptsd https://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/us/2021/february/minneapolis-re... https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/portland-mayor-additional-police-funding-rise-crime https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/portland-mayor-addit...
dotancohen 5y ago
Actually, I haven't been to Athens since summer 2019. Lovely place, so long as you avoid the touristy places. Though I do like your form of expressing your frustration about the trial and sentencing of Socrates at myself as though I were his prosecutor, I assure you that I'm an under-50 mortal not born of gods and not atanatos. > you could explain it and wouldn't find questions 'annoying'. A question would not be annoying. Badgering, accusations, and pestering would be. And quite frankly, as we both know, every single one of us has contradictions in their beliefs and their actions. I'm not going to defend mine in public to a beggar following me around with the explicit intention of exposing my contradictions to my peers as a way to demonstrate that I (and for that matter, anybody) am not fit for the office I hold.

lugged 5y ago

Facts don't care about your feelings and the truth doesn't hurt points of view that are legitimate.

ben_w 5y ago
I’m not sure what this has to do with an ancient Athenian philosopher being stoned to death for saying things other people didn’t want to hear, such as “I can’t possibly be both an atheist and worship false gods”. Care to elaborate?
- lugged 5y ago
  Just a modern rif on the same statement made above.
notenoughbeans 5y ago
Didn't expect a quote from Tom Macdonald when I opened HN this morning.
psd1 5y ago
Maybe not, but opinions about how we should conduct our societies depend on feelings, and things that appear true but are subtly wrong can cause great harm.
strken 5y ago
Here's a gigantic PDF listing ways the truth can hurt all kinds of things: https://www.nickbostrom.com/information-hazards.pdf https://www.nickbostrom.com/information-hazards.pdf
- lugged 5y ago
  What's your point? I didn't say the truth was harmless. Just that it doesn't hurt points of view that are legitimate. Illigitimate views and your feelings may still suffer from hearing the truth. My point is that the facts don't care.
  - strken 5y ago
    My point is that you can use true facts to give an impression that is false, as documented in the pdf. Therefore, completely true facts can make you believe a falsehood. Therefore, the truth can harm a point of view that is legitimate.

dd36 5y ago

Who has been deplatformed for questioning the status quo? Isn’t literally all of BLM challenging the status quo?

jjdin14 5y ago
blm is the status quo, that’s why speaking against blm gets people deplatformed.
- downWidOutaFite 5y ago
  If blm were the status quo the police would have been defunded.
  - blitz_skull 5y ago
    I think a couple cities did that, and quickly back-tracked because crime shot up.
    - philosopher1234 5y ago
      Thats a robust and well researched opinion you have there.
      - hunterb123 5y ago
        He's not wrong, many cities defunded their police and then quickly reversed that decision, many adding more funds to their departments. It was a pretty big event so I know we all remember it as long as you follow current events, but it's easy to find articles mentioning it. https://www.wsj.com/articles/cities-reverse-defunding-the-police-amid-rising-crime-11622066307 https://www.wsj.com/articles/cities-reverse-defunding-the-po... https://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/us/2021/february/minneapolis-reverses-defund-the-police-efforts-approving-6-4-million-for-new-officers-after-widespread-ptsd https://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/us/2021/february/minneapolis-re... https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/portland-mayor-additional-police-funding-rise-crime https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/portland-mayor-addit...

dotancohen 5y ago

Actually, I haven't been to Athens since summer 2019. Lovely place, so long as you avoid the touristy places. Though I do like your form of expressing your frustration about the trial and sentencing of Socrates at myself as though I were his prosecutor, I assure you that I'm an under-50 mortal not born of gods and not atanatos. > you could explain it and wouldn't find questions 'annoying'. A question would not be annoying. Badgering, accusations, and pestering would be. And quite frankly, as we both know, every single one of us has contradictions in their beliefs and their actions. I'm not going to defend mine in public to a beggar following me around with the explicit intention of exposing my contradictions to my peers as a way to demonstrate that I (and for that matter, anybody) am not fit for the office I hold.