3 ms·

tl;dr, but it reminded me of the "big" news yesterday that via ML you can guess bank ATM codes from shielded hand movements. Reading down, it turned out you cou

tl;dr, but it reminded me of the "big" news yesterday that via ML you can guess bank ATM codes from shielded hand movements. Reading down, it turned out you could guess 30% after the 3 try limit imposed by the machines. Not terrible, but completely impractical unless you steal a LOT of bank cards.

shoto_io 5y ago
I used an AI summarizer to summarize it for you... is this useful?! Could they be the modern equivalent of ancient alchemists? And would it be such a bad thing if they turned our lives into gold-plated jumble? Yann LeCun is co-recipient of the 2018 Turing Award for his work on neural networks. He argues that AI research is just a necessary adolescent phase characterized by trial and error, confusion, overconfidence and a lack of overall understanding. We have nothing to fear and much to gain from embracing this approach. Alchemy is considered to have been a useful precursor to modern chemistry, more proto-science than hocus-pocus. We could enter a golden age of modern-day alchemy, in the best sense of the word, but we should never forget cautionary lessons of history.
taneq 5y ago
> completely impractical unless you steal a LOT of bank cards. Like... 3 or 4? What's that, two average wallets? (Leaving aside the question of whether scamming a few hundred dollars out of someone's debit account is practical in any sense compared with all the other ways you could legally make way more money with the same skillset, of course.)
- anyfoo 5y ago
  Yeah I was wondering, too. 30%, i.e. 1/3, success rate per card seems incredibly good, actually? But possibly I just completely misread what "30% after the 3 try limit imposed by the machines" means?
- stdbrouw 5y ago
  But you first have to observe them using the card… so 5 cards implies mugging 5 people, which is quite different from stealing wallets from random targets, easiest first.
devoutsalsa 5y ago
I feel like you’d start building up the expertise to steal cards & use ML to guess pin codes only to realize you could just mug someone after the ATM withdrawal.
- aspenmayer 5y ago
  I think the potential use case here is to enhance the utility of and likelihood of success using a skimmer with a built-in camera, with ML increasing the chances of deducing PINs that would otherwise fallback to bruteforcing, which is statistically unlikely compared to 30% success rate with this ML method. Nothing to scoff at, and good to know for blue teams.
  - devoutsalsa 5y ago
    Ah, I forgot about skimmers. Good call.

shoto_io 5y ago

I used an AI summarizer to summarize it for you... is this useful?! Could they be the modern equivalent of ancient alchemists? And would it be such a bad thing if they turned our lives into gold-plated jumble? Yann LeCun is co-recipient of the 2018 Turing Award for his work on neural networks. He argues that AI research is just a necessary adolescent phase characterized by trial and error, confusion, overconfidence and a lack of overall understanding. We have nothing to fear and much to gain from embracing this approach. Alchemy is considered to have been a useful precursor to modern chemistry, more proto-science than hocus-pocus. We could enter a golden age of modern-day alchemy, in the best sense of the word, but we should never forget cautionary lessons of history.

taneq 5y ago

> completely impractical unless you steal a LOT of bank cards. Like... 3 or 4? What's that, two average wallets? (Leaving aside the question of whether scamming a few hundred dollars out of someone's debit account is practical in any sense compared with all the other ways you could legally make way more money with the same skillset, of course.)

anyfoo 5y ago
Yeah I was wondering, too. 30%, i.e. 1/3, success rate per card seems incredibly good, actually? But possibly I just completely misread what "30% after the 3 try limit imposed by the machines" means?
stdbrouw 5y ago
But you first have to observe them using the card… so 5 cards implies mugging 5 people, which is quite different from stealing wallets from random targets, easiest first.

devoutsalsa 5y ago

I feel like you’d start building up the expertise to steal cards & use ML to guess pin codes only to realize you could just mug someone after the ATM withdrawal.

aspenmayer 5y ago
I think the potential use case here is to enhance the utility of and likelihood of success using a skimmer with a built-in camera, with ML increasing the chances of deducing PINs that would otherwise fallback to bruteforcing, which is statistically unlikely compared to 30% success rate with this ML method. Nothing to scoff at, and good to know for blue teams.
- devoutsalsa 5y ago
  Ah, I forgot about skimmers. Good call.