5 ms·

Except no one drives at home. Every EV fan still complains about lack of public charging stations. I suspect few people really find home recharging as any kind

by Hypx_ 5y ago

Except no one drives at home. Every EV fan still complains about lack of public charging stations. I suspect few people really find home recharging as any kind of game changer.

caf 5y ago
My experience is that complaints about lack of public charging stations tend to be more from those considering buying an EV than those actually with one. (Those who drive an EV tend to complain more about the maintenance of the public stations than the number of them).
- Hypx_ 5y ago
  Same thing. Everyone uses public stations all the time.
  - caf 5y ago
    They really don't. Pretty much anyone with the ability to charge at home, charges at home for all their day-to-day driving, with stops at charging stations used only for infrequent longer trips.
    - Hypx_ 5y ago
      Only because they have to. If there was a way to recharge within 3 minutes publically, the home charging solution would be rarely used.
      - caf 5y ago
        Why do you think so? The convenience of taking a few moments to plug in when you park for the night, over taking a specific trip to a charging destination, seems pretty hard to beat (and that's before factoring in that home electricity rates are in general considerably cheaper).
        Hypx_ 5y ago
        In the Northeast, people often use fuel oil delivered to their house for heating. Except that this fuel oil is basically diesel/kerosene, meaning we already had a system of delivery fuel to people's houses. And yet there was never an outcry for home refueling for their cars. It clearly wasn't something that people wanted even when they had it. So it's hard to see why now all of a sudden this is a real selling point.
        caf 5y ago
        Probably because the idea of "you have to be home with the car waiting for the fuel guy to turn up" destroys a lot of the convenience, and the fact that car fuel tanks are more than 15 times smaller than typical heating oil tanks means you'd be paying a lot more overhead.
        Hypx_ 5y ago
        You have a big tank of fuel that can be stored up until you need it. It also takes a few minutes, not the hours you have to wait until a battery is full.
        caf 5y ago
        I don't see how this follows as a response to the previous comment. (The time required by home charging is not particularly relevant if it's happening while you're sleeping or the car is otherwise idle, anyway).
        caf 5y ago
        To clarify: Considering how popular it is to get other frequently-used consumables home delivered, like food and alcohol, it is on the face of it somewhat surprising that the same is not true of liquid vehicle fuel. My prior comment was suggesting some possible reasons this might be so. Thinking through it some more, the objection around the vehicle needing to be home at the time the delivery is made can be overcome by having the deliveries made late at night, as long as there was some way to give the delivery driver access to the car's fuel tank. At the end of the day it may just be too inefficient to have liquid fuel delivered weekly in 30-60 litre quantities, the overhead being too great.
magicalhippo 5y ago
We've owned an EV for two years and charging at home has been a huge deal, especially for my SO. She needs to get to bed early, so when hanging out with friends she hated having to go to the gas station on her way home. Often resulting in panic the next day. More than once she ran out of gas cause she forgot to look when driving off in the morning. It takes about 3 seconds to plug in the car when we get back home, and we never have to worry about running out when we drive away in the morning. Hydrogen would have to be significantly better in price and range to offset this for our future vehicle purchase. A mere 2x range increase over pure EV won't cut it.
- Hypx_ 5y ago
  This is just post-hoc rationalization. The extra few minutes of refueling time is hardly a problem. Even so, eventually you likely will be able to refuel at home since home electrolysis is possible.
  - magicalhippo 5y ago
    > This is just post-hoc rationalization. For you maybe. For my SO I can assure you it's absolutely not. Having owned an EV for two years now, it's clear that it's been good enough for us. Yes range is a bit limited, but for us it hasn't been an issue. It has some upsides like fairly trivial home-charging if you got a garage. As such, hydrogen can't just deliver the same to be competitive. Hydrogen will have to deliver more. Longer range at same cost wouldn't be enough for us, the negatives would make it a no-go. So it would have to be longer range for much cheaper. But I don't see how cost can be significantly cheaper, given the process inefficiencies and infrastructure required. Looking at the concepts[1] I can't imagine them being cheaper than a home EV charger, which is about 1000-1500 USD installed. Never mind that we don't have any space for such a huge thing. And I'm doubtful as to how much H2 we'll be able to generate here in Norway during winter. [1]: https://www.hydrogencarsnow.com/index.php/home-hydrogen-fueling-stations/ https://www.hydrogencarsnow.com/index.php/home-hydrogen-fuel...
    - Hypx_ 5y ago
jliptzin 5y ago
Home charging was one of the primary reasons I bought an EV in the first place, I hate going to gas stations especially when they're out of the way or when I'm not driving through a great area.
- Hypx_ 5y ago
  Everyone says this but they still talk about public charging all the time. It's mostly just a rationalization.
  - jliptzin 5y ago
    They do? I've never had a problem the handful of times I needed to charge on the road.
    - Hypx_ 5y ago
      The point is that they talk about it. Either positively or negative, it means that they're using the public chargers.
      - jliptzin 5y ago
        What do you mean by public chargers? Does that include superchargers?
        Hypx_ 5y ago
        Yes, all of the above.
        jliptzin 5y ago
        I do a lot of driving and still I have only had to use public chargers a handful of times over 2 years. Even if not staying at home I can usually at least plug into a 110v outlet somewhere or I stay at a hotel that has an EV charger.

by Hypx_ 5y ago

Except no one drives at home. Every EV fan still complains about lack of public charging stations. I suspect few people really find home recharging as any kind of game changer.

caf 5y ago

My experience is that complaints about lack of public charging stations tend to be more from those considering buying an EV than those actually with one. (Those who drive an EV tend to complain more about the maintenance of the public stations than the number of them).

Hypx_ 5y ago
Same thing. Everyone uses public stations all the time.
- caf 5y ago
  They really don't. Pretty much anyone with the ability to charge at home, charges at home for all their day-to-day driving, with stops at charging stations used only for infrequent longer trips.
  - Hypx_ 5y ago
    Only because they have to. If there was a way to recharge within 3 minutes publically, the home charging solution would be rarely used.
    - caf 5y ago
      Why do you think so? The convenience of taking a few moments to plug in when you park for the night, over taking a specific trip to a charging destination, seems pretty hard to beat (and that's before factoring in that home electricity rates are in general considerably cheaper).
      - Hypx_ 5y ago
        In the Northeast, people often use fuel oil delivered to their house for heating. Except that this fuel oil is basically diesel/kerosene, meaning we already had a system of delivery fuel to people's houses. And yet there was never an outcry for home refueling for their cars. It clearly wasn't something that people wanted even when they had it. So it's hard to see why now all of a sudden this is a real selling point.
        caf 5y ago
        Probably because the idea of "you have to be home with the car waiting for the fuel guy to turn up" destroys a lot of the convenience, and the fact that car fuel tanks are more than 15 times smaller than typical heating oil tanks means you'd be paying a lot more overhead.
        Hypx_ 5y ago
        You have a big tank of fuel that can be stored up until you need it. It also takes a few minutes, not the hours you have to wait until a battery is full.
        caf 5y ago
        I don't see how this follows as a response to the previous comment. (The time required by home charging is not particularly relevant if it's happening while you're sleeping or the car is otherwise idle, anyway).
        caf 5y ago
        To clarify: Considering how popular it is to get other frequently-used consumables home delivered, like food and alcohol, it is on the face of it somewhat surprising that the same is not true of liquid vehicle fuel. My prior comment was suggesting some possible reasons this might be so. Thinking through it some more, the objection around the vehicle needing to be home at the time the delivery is made can be overcome by having the deliveries made late at night, as long as there was some way to give the delivery driver access to the car's fuel tank. At the end of the day it may just be too inefficient to have liquid fuel delivered weekly in 30-60 litre quantities, the overhead being too great.

magicalhippo 5y ago

We've owned an EV for two years and charging at home has been a huge deal, especially for my SO. She needs to get to bed early, so when hanging out with friends she hated having to go to the gas station on her way home. Often resulting in panic the next day. More than once she ran out of gas cause she forgot to look when driving off in the morning. It takes about 3 seconds to plug in the car when we get back home, and we never have to worry about running out when we drive away in the morning. Hydrogen would have to be significantly better in price and range to offset this for our future vehicle purchase. A mere 2x range increase over pure EV won't cut it.

Hypx_ 5y ago
This is just post-hoc rationalization. The extra few minutes of refueling time is hardly a problem. Even so, eventually you likely will be able to refuel at home since home electrolysis is possible.
- magicalhippo 5y ago
  > This is just post-hoc rationalization. For you maybe. For my SO I can assure you it's absolutely not. Having owned an EV for two years now, it's clear that it's been good enough for us. Yes range is a bit limited, but for us it hasn't been an issue. It has some upsides like fairly trivial home-charging if you got a garage. As such, hydrogen can't just deliver the same to be competitive. Hydrogen will have to deliver more. Longer range at same cost wouldn't be enough for us, the negatives would make it a no-go. So it would have to be longer range for much cheaper. But I don't see how cost can be significantly cheaper, given the process inefficiencies and infrastructure required. Looking at the concepts[1] I can't imagine them being cheaper than a home EV charger, which is about 1000-1500 USD installed. Never mind that we don't have any space for such a huge thing. And I'm doubtful as to how much H2 we'll be able to generate here in Norway during winter. [1]: https://www.hydrogencarsnow.com/index.php/home-hydrogen-fueling-stations/ https://www.hydrogencarsnow.com/index.php/home-hydrogen-fuel...
  - Hypx_ 5y ago

jliptzin 5y ago

Home charging was one of the primary reasons I bought an EV in the first place, I hate going to gas stations especially when they're out of the way or when I'm not driving through a great area.

Hypx_ 5y ago
Everyone says this but they still talk about public charging all the time. It's mostly just a rationalization.
- jliptzin 5y ago
  They do? I've never had a problem the handful of times I needed to charge on the road.
  - Hypx_ 5y ago
    The point is that they talk about it. Either positively or negative, it means that they're using the public chargers.
    - jliptzin 5y ago
      What do you mean by public chargers? Does that include superchargers?
      - Hypx_ 5y ago
        Yes, all of the above.
        jliptzin 5y ago
        I do a lot of driving and still I have only had to use public chargers a handful of times over 2 years. Even if not staying at home I can usually at least plug into a 110v outlet somewhere or I stay at a hotel that has an EV charger.