4 ms·

German Democratic Republic wants to disagree on that!

by fock 5y ago

JoBrad 5y ago
People crossed the German border. People cross the Korean border, too.
tfourb 5y ago
In Berlin alone, which was by far the most heavily fortified part of the "Iron Curtain," more than 5,000 people successfully fled across the border despite the "Berlin Wall." https://www.chronik-der-mauer.de/fluchten/ https://www.chronik-der-mauer.de/fluchten/
- aerostable_slug 5y ago
  More people cross into California alone in a single Border Patrol district in a single night. That said, I don't envision shoot on sight orders or the use of SM-70 directional mines on the American border. What I find particularly interesting is the complete reversal of positions from years ago. CSPAN has a video of Dianne Feinstein talking about border security with AG Janet Reno, and you could swear they were talking points cribbed from a Trump strategy session. Increased immigration tends to lower wages which favors employers. OTOH, protectionist immigration policies tend to keep the status quo especially for low-skilled labor, whom you would think the DNC is pledged to protect. It's just interesting to see how political fashions have switched. Is it the fear of terrorists crossing the border or..?
  - dragonwriter 5y ago
    > What I find particularly interesting is the complete reversal of positions from years ago. It hasn’t reversed, though the right-wing bipartisan consensus on the issue of the early 1990s has gone. > Increased immigration tends to lower wages which favors employers. Immigration mostly increases and decreases by economic conditions (at home and abroad). Immigration policy mostly influences the proportion of immigrants with legal status. More immigrants with legal immigration status means immigrants are less likely to be in fear of asserting things like labor rights, whereas more without legal status means more fear of things like that. > It’s just interesting to see how political fashions have switched. They haven’t switched, at least not in well over a generation. Republicans have been for narrower legal immigration policies for decades (the backward-reaching amnesty under Reagan was a component of tighter forward policies). There was a brief period of general bipartisan consensus on the direction of change (though still distance on the details), but no reversal.
    - aerostable_slug 5y ago
      This has literally nothing to do with labor rights. Increase the supply of something and the cost goes down. Illegal labor gets here faster than legal labor and in uncontrollable numbers. You're right that you have to pay legal immigrants more, but given the ready supply of illegal immigrants it's not hard for an employer to look the other way. If one wanted to control wages, one would want to ensure the unskilled labor supply was somewhat limited. Otherwise an employer can drive down to minimum wage rather easily. One might do that by better securing the borders. I'm purposely leaving out the antiterrorist wish of at least getting some idea of who's coming in and out of Disneyland so to speak.
ygjb 5y ago
Are you trying to hold up the autocratic client state that failed to stop 50,000 people from escaping in it's 45 year duration as an example? The one that was facing the prospect of economic ruin when it's controlling state had to withdraw economic and military support due to it's own policies of perestroika that sought to address the impending economic collapse of Soviet Russia? The fascist client state that collapsed due to an increasingly hostile domestic population who were angered by the growing economic challenges, and were tired of the continued state violence? The same German Democratic Republic that has been consigned to the historical scrap heap of failed totalitarian regimes? One might even consider holding North Korea up as a current example, since they have outlasted the GDR by 31 years so far, but they are also a client state, and their economy has been in relatively steady decline. The only thing keeping North Korea a functioning country is military and economic support from China, with even Russia's central bank continuing to push back against further economic development with North Korea.

German Democratic Republic wants to disagree on that!

by fock 5y ago

German Democratic Republic wants to disagree on that!

JoBrad 5y ago

People crossed the German border. People cross the Korean border, too.

tfourb 5y ago

In Berlin alone, which was by far the most heavily fortified part of the "Iron Curtain," more than 5,000 people successfully fled across the border despite the "Berlin Wall." https://www.chronik-der-mauer.de/fluchten/ https://www.chronik-der-mauer.de/fluchten/

aerostable_slug 5y ago
More people cross into California alone in a single Border Patrol district in a single night. That said, I don't envision shoot on sight orders or the use of SM-70 directional mines on the American border. What I find particularly interesting is the complete reversal of positions from years ago. CSPAN has a video of Dianne Feinstein talking about border security with AG Janet Reno, and you could swear they were talking points cribbed from a Trump strategy session. Increased immigration tends to lower wages which favors employers. OTOH, protectionist immigration policies tend to keep the status quo especially for low-skilled labor, whom you would think the DNC is pledged to protect. It's just interesting to see how political fashions have switched. Is it the fear of terrorists crossing the border or..?
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > What I find particularly interesting is the complete reversal of positions from years ago. It hasn’t reversed, though the right-wing bipartisan consensus on the issue of the early 1990s has gone. > Increased immigration tends to lower wages which favors employers. Immigration mostly increases and decreases by economic conditions (at home and abroad). Immigration policy mostly influences the proportion of immigrants with legal status. More immigrants with legal immigration status means immigrants are less likely to be in fear of asserting things like labor rights, whereas more without legal status means more fear of things like that. > It’s just interesting to see how political fashions have switched. They haven’t switched, at least not in well over a generation. Republicans have been for narrower legal immigration policies for decades (the backward-reaching amnesty under Reagan was a component of tighter forward policies). There was a brief period of general bipartisan consensus on the direction of change (though still distance on the details), but no reversal.
  - aerostable_slug 5y ago
    This has literally nothing to do with labor rights. Increase the supply of something and the cost goes down. Illegal labor gets here faster than legal labor and in uncontrollable numbers. You're right that you have to pay legal immigrants more, but given the ready supply of illegal immigrants it's not hard for an employer to look the other way. If one wanted to control wages, one would want to ensure the unskilled labor supply was somewhat limited. Otherwise an employer can drive down to minimum wage rather easily. One might do that by better securing the borders. I'm purposely leaving out the antiterrorist wish of at least getting some idea of who's coming in and out of Disneyland so to speak.

ygjb 5y ago

Are you trying to hold up the autocratic client state that failed to stop 50,000 people from escaping in it's 45 year duration as an example? The one that was facing the prospect of economic ruin when it's controlling state had to withdraw economic and military support due to it's own policies of perestroika that sought to address the impending economic collapse of Soviet Russia? The fascist client state that collapsed due to an increasingly hostile domestic population who were angered by the growing economic challenges, and were tired of the continued state violence? The same German Democratic Republic that has been consigned to the historical scrap heap of failed totalitarian regimes? One might even consider holding North Korea up as a current example, since they have outlasted the GDR by 31 years so far, but they are also a client state, and their economy has been in relatively steady decline. The only thing keeping North Korea a functioning country is military and economic support from China, with even Russia's central bank continuing to push back against further economic development with North Korea.