4 ms·

Serious question: What specifically made you switch from gecko to chromium in the Brave browser? I know compatibly with modern web apps is frequently cited as

by rank0 5y ago

Serious question: What specifically made you switch from gecko to chromium in the Brave browser? I know compatibly with modern web apps is frequently cited as the reason but using FF as my daily driver I never run into any issues. Was it easier to develop BAT integration and the custom ad/tracking blockers?

concinds 5y ago
I'm glad they switched to Blink, and I hope TorBrowser switches too. Blink is more secure and modern than Gecko. Brave still wouldn't have site isolation, an important security feature, if they stuck with Gecko. Whether due to bad priorities or lack of funding, Firefox is just really falling behind, but in many cases, in ways that aren't easily apparent. Sure, websites load, but Firefox didn't have sandboxing until (2017? I think), which Chrome had since 2008. It's not really defensible for a web browser with such a big attack surface. And Firefox today is still pretty far behind in security, to the point where even if I valued Mozilla and thought Firefox was the best browser ever, I still wouldn't use it and wouldn't recommend anyone else use it.
- Gargyle 5y ago
  Bashing Gecko security in such ways is dishonest. Did you ever actually look at their architecture or do you just parrot a lazy blog post? The real problem here is browser ever increasing scope. I never cared for VR or gaming in browsers. SPAs are user unfriendly garbage that I seldom see used for anything else than preventing user agency.
  - concinds 5y ago
    I don't think it's dishonest. It's easy to find areas where Chrome is ahead, and I haven't found one area (in security) where Firefox is ahead. https://madaidans-insecurities.github.io/firefox-chromium.html https://madaidans-insecurities.github.io/firefox-chromium.ht... If you ask most browser exploit researchers, this would probably be pretty much a consensus view. Very few of them that I know use Firefox. > The real problem here is browser ever increasing scope. I never cared for VR or gaming in browsers. SPAs are user unfriendly garbage that I seldom see used for anything else than preventing user agency. I don't care what Mozilla or the Safari team think I should be allowed to do in a web browser, I want to have the option of doing practically anything. I'm glad I can play Cyberpunk 2077 in a browser, because otherwise I wouldn't be able to, period (I don't have Windows). People complain that the web's prominence means every app uses Electron nowadays, but I'm glad I can run anything on Linux or Mac, and the "development costs" argument that kept apps Windows-only no longer applies. The web saved the desktop, it didn't ruin it. I view Google's Chrome web app push in the same vein as Steam's Proton. Decreased reliance on just 2 big, somewhat-dysfunctional vendors (Apple & Microsoft), to not be locked into a declining ecosystem.
BrendanEich 5y ago
There were a ton of issues using Gecko, starting with (at the time) no CDM (HTML5 DRM module) so no HD video content from the major studios, Netflix, Amazon, etc. -- Firefox had an Adobe deal but it was not transferable or transferred to any other browser that used Gecko -- and running the gamut of paper-cuts to major web incompatibilities especially on mobile, vs. WebKit-lineage engines such as Chromium/Blink.

by rank0 5y ago

concinds 5y ago

I'm glad they switched to Blink, and I hope TorBrowser switches too. Blink is more secure and modern than Gecko. Brave still wouldn't have site isolation, an important security feature, if they stuck with Gecko. Whether due to bad priorities or lack of funding, Firefox is just really falling behind, but in many cases, in ways that aren't easily apparent. Sure, websites load, but Firefox didn't have sandboxing until (2017? I think), which Chrome had since 2008. It's not really defensible for a web browser with such a big attack surface. And Firefox today is still pretty far behind in security, to the point where even if I valued Mozilla and thought Firefox was the best browser ever, I still wouldn't use it and wouldn't recommend anyone else use it.

Gargyle 5y ago
Bashing Gecko security in such ways is dishonest. Did you ever actually look at their architecture or do you just parrot a lazy blog post? The real problem here is browser ever increasing scope. I never cared for VR or gaming in browsers. SPAs are user unfriendly garbage that I seldom see used for anything else than preventing user agency.
- concinds 5y ago
  I don't think it's dishonest. It's easy to find areas where Chrome is ahead, and I haven't found one area (in security) where Firefox is ahead. https://madaidans-insecurities.github.io/firefox-chromium.html https://madaidans-insecurities.github.io/firefox-chromium.ht... If you ask most browser exploit researchers, this would probably be pretty much a consensus view. Very few of them that I know use Firefox. > The real problem here is browser ever increasing scope. I never cared for VR or gaming in browsers. SPAs are user unfriendly garbage that I seldom see used for anything else than preventing user agency. I don't care what Mozilla or the Safari team think I should be allowed to do in a web browser, I want to have the option of doing practically anything. I'm glad I can play Cyberpunk 2077 in a browser, because otherwise I wouldn't be able to, period (I don't have Windows). People complain that the web's prominence means every app uses Electron nowadays, but I'm glad I can run anything on Linux or Mac, and the "development costs" argument that kept apps Windows-only no longer applies. The web saved the desktop, it didn't ruin it. I view Google's Chrome web app push in the same vein as Steam's Proton. Decreased reliance on just 2 big, somewhat-dysfunctional vendors (Apple & Microsoft), to not be locked into a declining ecosystem.

BrendanEich 5y ago

There were a ton of issues using Gecko, starting with (at the time) no CDM (HTML5 DRM module) so no HD video content from the major studios, Netflix, Amazon, etc. -- Firefox had an Adobe deal but it was not transferable or transferred to any other browser that used Gecko -- and running the gamut of paper-cuts to major web incompatibilities especially on mobile, vs. WebKit-lineage engines such as Chromium/Blink.