4 ms·

Eventually western countries will be taken over by Muslims and non white Christians and we will have normal social structures again. This is not a pejorative.

Eventually western countries will be taken over by Muslims and non white Christians and we will have normal social structures again. This is not a pejorative. As an immigrant, I think this will be great.

drukenemo 5y ago
I hope very much that doesn’t happen. That’s not pejorative.
- iammisc 5y ago
  I understand that white people would find this scary, and I honest to goodness hope that the majority of white people in this country go back to having some semblance of a successful culture, but I don't see that happening in the white culture at large, so we will have to take what we get.
dutchCourage 5y ago
> we will have normal social structures again. What do you consider "normal"?
- dustintrex 5y ago
  Monogamous marriage between a man and a woman is historically far and away most common social structure around the world, although obviously there is a vast amount of variety.
  - TulliusCicero 5y ago
    Okay, but we still have monogamous long-term relationships between straight men and women as the norm, in terms of what is most common. Those haven't gone away. We've just become more accepting of people who don't fit the standard mold. So it sounds like anyone clamoring for a return to historical norms is actually clamoring for a return to bigotry: returning to treating gay people like garbage, for example, and denying their relationships legal rights.
    - iammisc 5y ago
      > returning to treating gay people like garbage, for example, and denying their relationships legal rights. A lot of what gay people claim is treating them 'like garbage' is just the natural limitation of a homosexual relationship. For example, not being able to rent a womb is not being treated like garbage. No one has been allowed to do that for most of history, and most straight people can't do that. Not being allowed to rent wombs is just not being allowed to being what amounts to a slaveholder.
  - readthenotes1 5y ago
    Monogamous for whom? Muslims hardly revere monogamy, though they draw the line at tetragamy for most.
    - dustintrex 5y ago
      While Islam permits up to four wives, the vast majority of Muslim men have only one.
    - iammisc 5y ago
      For the vast majority of history, the vast majority of muslim men have only had at most one wife.
  - bawolff 5y ago
    I'm doubtful of that. Homosexuality was very normalized in the ancient western world, but it looked very different then modern conceptions. How many people do you know recently that used marriage to secure an economic/political alliance? Pretty common among elites historically, almost unheard of today.
    - iammisc 5y ago
      > I'm doubtful of that. Homosexuality was very normalized in the ancient western world, but it looked very different then modern conceptions. Indeed... most of what modern day LGBTQ+ activists conceive of as homosexuality in the ancient world is just close male friendship. Half the things people claim were instances of 'homosexuality' in ancient literature are just men fooling around. There are very few instances of men (or women) actually forming stable social structures with commitment in the absence of marriage to the opposite sex. Ultimately, our confusion in this regard is due to the fact that so few men have actual friends. I sometimes go out 1-on-1 with my male friends to restaurants (often fancy ones). It's a guys night. We're all married with kids. And yet, oftentimes, people will think we're dating or something. It's weird. FFS, I went with my father to a nice restaurant, and they thought we were married. Something has gone very wrong with how we conceive of men being friends, which makes sense, because so few men have any (which probably explains the rise of homosexuality as well).
TulliusCicero 5y ago
> we will have normal social structures again. Does this basically translate to, "we'll judge the shit out of any non-traditional family again"?
- iammisc 5y ago
  I'm not sure what a 'non-traditional' family is. It has nothing to do with judgement, just a return to a culture that produces success, including in the form of a culture that can reproduce itself. Cultures that fail to do such things and transmit their beliefs on to the next generation are doomed to fail, which is why the vast majority of extant cultures that have survived several thousands of years, typically mainly celebrate the kinds of families naturally lead to children and provide a proper environment for child-rearing. You can argue whether it's good or bad. Natural selection has no moral value attached to it. It's a simple matter of survival.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
tomjen3 5y ago
Personally I am hopeing for nano-tech and neovictorians, but that is just me. We can make marriage attractive again, if we make divoce very, very hard or very, very easy. What we have now is in between and that helps nobody.
- iammisc 5y ago
  Divorce can't be easy because it often involves children, which are not easy. They are the reality check on life.
  - tomjen3 5y ago
    We can make it as easy as what happens when you aren't married and split up.
    - iammisc 5y ago
      Right, we should do something like require fathers to pay support to their children, and become involved in visitation rights should the parties request it. I don't understand what you thinks happens in divorce that's so special. If an unmarried father and mother have children, then any dispute they may have regarding children that can be taken to court in a marriage can also happen to them.
Ancapistani 5y ago
As a white Christian male, I’ve often had the thought that Hispanic immigration into the US, being largely practicing Catholics, could very well trigger a turn toward more traditional values in this country. I’m all for that :)

drukenemo 5y ago

I hope very much that doesn’t happen. That’s not pejorative.

iammisc 5y ago
I understand that white people would find this scary, and I honest to goodness hope that the majority of white people in this country go back to having some semblance of a successful culture, but I don't see that happening in the white culture at large, so we will have to take what we get.

dutchCourage 5y ago

> we will have normal social structures again. What do you consider "normal"?

dustintrex 5y ago
Monogamous marriage between a man and a woman is historically far and away most common social structure around the world, although obviously there is a vast amount of variety.
- TulliusCicero 5y ago
  Okay, but we still have monogamous long-term relationships between straight men and women as the norm, in terms of what is most common. Those haven't gone away. We've just become more accepting of people who don't fit the standard mold. So it sounds like anyone clamoring for a return to historical norms is actually clamoring for a return to bigotry: returning to treating gay people like garbage, for example, and denying their relationships legal rights.
  - iammisc 5y ago
    > returning to treating gay people like garbage, for example, and denying their relationships legal rights. A lot of what gay people claim is treating them 'like garbage' is just the natural limitation of a homosexual relationship. For example, not being able to rent a womb is not being treated like garbage. No one has been allowed to do that for most of history, and most straight people can't do that. Not being allowed to rent wombs is just not being allowed to being what amounts to a slaveholder.
- readthenotes1 5y ago
  Monogamous for whom? Muslims hardly revere monogamy, though they draw the line at tetragamy for most.
  - dustintrex 5y ago
    While Islam permits up to four wives, the vast majority of Muslim men have only one.
  - iammisc 5y ago
    For the vast majority of history, the vast majority of muslim men have only had at most one wife.
- bawolff 5y ago
  I'm doubtful of that. Homosexuality was very normalized in the ancient western world, but it looked very different then modern conceptions. How many people do you know recently that used marriage to secure an economic/political alliance? Pretty common among elites historically, almost unheard of today.
  - iammisc 5y ago
    > I'm doubtful of that. Homosexuality was very normalized in the ancient western world, but it looked very different then modern conceptions. Indeed... most of what modern day LGBTQ+ activists conceive of as homosexuality in the ancient world is just close male friendship. Half the things people claim were instances of 'homosexuality' in ancient literature are just men fooling around. There are very few instances of men (or women) actually forming stable social structures with commitment in the absence of marriage to the opposite sex. Ultimately, our confusion in this regard is due to the fact that so few men have actual friends. I sometimes go out 1-on-1 with my male friends to restaurants (often fancy ones). It's a guys night. We're all married with kids. And yet, oftentimes, people will think we're dating or something. It's weird. FFS, I went with my father to a nice restaurant, and they thought we were married. Something has gone very wrong with how we conceive of men being friends, which makes sense, because so few men have any (which probably explains the rise of homosexuality as well).

TulliusCicero 5y ago

> we will have normal social structures again. Does this basically translate to, "we'll judge the shit out of any non-traditional family again"?

iammisc 5y ago
I'm not sure what a 'non-traditional' family is. It has nothing to do with judgement, just a return to a culture that produces success, including in the form of a culture that can reproduce itself. Cultures that fail to do such things and transmit their beliefs on to the next generation are doomed to fail, which is why the vast majority of extant cultures that have survived several thousands of years, typically mainly celebrate the kinds of families naturally lead to children and provide a proper environment for child-rearing. You can argue whether it's good or bad. Natural selection has no moral value attached to it. It's a simple matter of survival.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

tomjen3 5y ago

Personally I am hopeing for nano-tech and neovictorians, but that is just me. We can make marriage attractive again, if we make divoce very, very hard or very, very easy. What we have now is in between and that helps nobody.

iammisc 5y ago
Divorce can't be easy because it often involves children, which are not easy. They are the reality check on life.
- tomjen3 5y ago
  We can make it as easy as what happens when you aren't married and split up.
  - iammisc 5y ago
    Right, we should do something like require fathers to pay support to their children, and become involved in visitation rights should the parties request it. I don't understand what you thinks happens in divorce that's so special. If an unmarried father and mother have children, then any dispute they may have regarding children that can be taken to court in a marriage can also happen to them.

Ancapistani 5y ago

As a white Christian male, I’ve often had the thought that Hispanic immigration into the US, being largely practicing Catholics, could very well trigger a turn toward more traditional values in this country. I’m all for that :)