5 ms·

>the OS is worse Worse than what? Windows, that is even in 2021 is still a clanky garbage. Or Linux (any distro) that can't be installed on a newest hardware

by konart 5y ago

>the OS is worse Worse than what? Windows, that is even in 2021 is still a clanky garbage. Or Linux (any distro) that can't be installed on a newest hardware without any trouble at all (my relatively recent experience). An even then you get an OS that you have to fix yourself for it to work and feel remotely nice. Yet without decent software in most cases outside of software development.

ylyn 5y ago
Well I'm someone who hacks on Linux for a living. What do I do now?
- konart 5y ago
  Well, I've been hacking on Linux for 8 years and been a maintainer for a few packages in AUR so what? Even the way you present yourself here proves my point. This is not an OS for a comfortable life, it's a system for "hacking" (including the system itself). If you still have passion and time for this - cool, most people don't want to spend their days on this.
  - krzyk 5y ago
    > If you still have passion and time for this - cool, most people don't want to spend their days on this. Just adding another counterpoint to "MacOs is awsome", anecdotal one, because we don't have any other. My wife (she is not a hacker, just a computer science teacher) hates macos, she preferred Linux. She used the system I setup for her, and I left it alone. She loved it. MacOS is created for average Joe that just browses web and has no clue about anything else (like filesystem, directories). Example: Finder, that thingy can't show you full paths. If you try to get to your home directory to get some files you have to jump hoops. I'm astonished that it is pushed as a developer OS, "because you have 'Linux' there". Sorry, that poor choice of basic utilities (some time ago bash there was ages old), that everyone has to use brew to get anything useful there. Hardware is nice, but OS, is something that you just overwrite while installing Linux.
    - dmitriid 5y ago
      > Example: Finder, that thingy can't show you full paths It can > If you try to get to your home directory to get some files you have to jump hoops. You don't > Sorry, that poor choice of basic utilities (some time ago bash there was ages old), that everyone has to use brew to get anything useful there. Ah yes, unlike the great linux where everyone is using apt-get/yum to install anything useful Disclaimer: have used Macs as my primary developer machine since 2008 across 4 industries as both frontend and backend developer in half a dozen different programming languages.
      - krzyk 5y ago
        > Ah yes, unlike the great linux where everyone is using apt-get/yum to install anything useful I wouldn't complain if macos had those utils built into os package manager/appstore, but it does not, one needs to install custom package manager. It is like I would need to install yum on Debian to get apps.
        konart 5y ago
        You are not complaining, you are trying to find yet another straw.
    - konart 5y ago
      I'm sorry, but this is just funny to say the least. I'm your average software developer when it comes to building software but I'm (and most people are) is your average Joe for the rest of the time. I don't really care if some "outside of job" app is a bit outdated if it performs well. At the same time I do care about my time and I do prefer applications that where carfted with user experience in mind which Linux lacks clearly. >She used the system I setup for her, and I left it alone. She loved it. So she doesn't really loves linux. You just build a kiosk for her. Nice and shiny. Good for her but this has nothing to do with the topic.
- AndyPa32 5y ago
  I use a AMD Linux machine for work (softfware development). Now I want to setup a second machine for audio production (Pro Tools and Ableton). For that I have the choice between Windows and Linux. Easy choice for me: M1 and MacOS, I certainly won't dabble with Windows.
vijucat 5y ago
> Windows, that is even in 2021 is still a clanky garbage. That's how I feel about macOS. It's for people who prioritize maximum animations over speed. For example, Finder is so slow compared to Windows Explorer. I love Windows. I love the customizability I love the speed, and even 15 years ago, there were 10X more software package for Windows than Mac. I hear that macOS in recent years (after 2019?) even allows you to change the drab grey color of the menu bar? That's progress! Maybe by 2030, they will allow you to move the menu bar to a vertical orientation because that's how a lot of people prefer it; there's less vertical space than horizontal on most monitors. I honestly cannot understand how one can stand this stifling arrangement where you are told, "This is how it is, we know better".
- ubermonkey 5y ago
  Do you mean the File/Edit/View menu bar, or the Dock? The Dock has been configurable forEVER. I ran it on the side for many years before switching back to the bottom.
  - vijucat 5y ago
    Yes, the File/Edit/View menu bar that has to be at the top.
    - ubermonkey 5y ago
      I have never even heard of someone wanting this, let alone doing it. Are you saying you do this in Windows programs?
      - vijucat 5y ago
        This very discussion shows that two people can have differing opinions and thus, the choice should be left to the user. That is my main point. Now, on a completely different note : a little bit more about the Vertical layout. Here are two articles with screenshots. It's awesome and now I can't go back to Horizontal taskbar ever. https://www.groovypost.com/howto/howto/vertical-vs-horizontal-windows-taskbar-22947/ https://www.groovypost.com/howto/howto/vertical-vs-horizonta... https://adamhollett.com/posts/2014/02/move-your-taskbar-to-the-side/ https://adamhollett.com/posts/2014/02/move-your-taskbar-to-t...
ClumsyPilot 5y ago
"Windows, that is even in 2021 is still a clanky garbage." MacOS is useless on desktop, it can't scale DPI of UI, if that's not clanky garbage i don't know what is. My large 4K screen either acts as an oversized 1080p display or turns into a blurry mess. Android and Windows both can efficiencltly use display with any aspect ratio and any DPI.
- et2o 5y ago
  It scales fine for me on 4K. Do you have the most recent Mac OS?
  - ClumsyPilot 5y ago
    You misunderstand - the MacOS software stack can only scale the UI to 1x,2x, 3x. So you can either use 4K display at 2X scaling, which gives you fullhd worth of realestate with Retina resolution. Or you can use it at 1x, ehich gives you tiny icons. When you use 'looks like 2560/qHD', then the OS renders to a virtual surface, pretending it has a 5K screen attached. Then it downscales that image, and outputs it. The result is janky straign lines, blurry'er text, etc. Modern Windows and Android render their UI natively in any resolution, and so you don't get issues. The caviat is that windows has 3 UI frameworks, and the oldest one is still found is some places, that's the one that doesn't scale.

by konart 5y ago

ylyn 5y ago

Well I'm someone who hacks on Linux for a living. What do I do now?

konart 5y ago
Well, I've been hacking on Linux for 8 years and been a maintainer for a few packages in AUR so what? Even the way you present yourself here proves my point. This is not an OS for a comfortable life, it's a system for "hacking" (including the system itself). If you still have passion and time for this - cool, most people don't want to spend their days on this.
- krzyk 5y ago
  > If you still have passion and time for this - cool, most people don't want to spend their days on this. Just adding another counterpoint to "MacOs is awsome", anecdotal one, because we don't have any other. My wife (she is not a hacker, just a computer science teacher) hates macos, she preferred Linux. She used the system I setup for her, and I left it alone. She loved it. MacOS is created for average Joe that just browses web and has no clue about anything else (like filesystem, directories). Example: Finder, that thingy can't show you full paths. If you try to get to your home directory to get some files you have to jump hoops. I'm astonished that it is pushed as a developer OS, "because you have 'Linux' there". Sorry, that poor choice of basic utilities (some time ago bash there was ages old), that everyone has to use brew to get anything useful there. Hardware is nice, but OS, is something that you just overwrite while installing Linux.
  - dmitriid 5y ago
    > Example: Finder, that thingy can't show you full paths It can > If you try to get to your home directory to get some files you have to jump hoops. You don't > Sorry, that poor choice of basic utilities (some time ago bash there was ages old), that everyone has to use brew to get anything useful there. Ah yes, unlike the great linux where everyone is using apt-get/yum to install anything useful Disclaimer: have used Macs as my primary developer machine since 2008 across 4 industries as both frontend and backend developer in half a dozen different programming languages.
    - krzyk 5y ago
      > Ah yes, unlike the great linux where everyone is using apt-get/yum to install anything useful I wouldn't complain if macos had those utils built into os package manager/appstore, but it does not, one needs to install custom package manager. It is like I would need to install yum on Debian to get apps.
      - konart 5y ago
        You are not complaining, you are trying to find yet another straw.
  - konart 5y ago
    I'm sorry, but this is just funny to say the least. I'm your average software developer when it comes to building software but I'm (and most people are) is your average Joe for the rest of the time. I don't really care if some "outside of job" app is a bit outdated if it performs well. At the same time I do care about my time and I do prefer applications that where carfted with user experience in mind which Linux lacks clearly. >She used the system I setup for her, and I left it alone. She loved it. So she doesn't really loves linux. You just build a kiosk for her. Nice and shiny. Good for her but this has nothing to do with the topic.
AndyPa32 5y ago
I use a AMD Linux machine for work (softfware development). Now I want to setup a second machine for audio production (Pro Tools and Ableton). For that I have the choice between Windows and Linux. Easy choice for me: M1 and MacOS, I certainly won't dabble with Windows.

vijucat 5y ago

> Windows, that is even in 2021 is still a clanky garbage. That's how I feel about macOS. It's for people who prioritize maximum animations over speed. For example, Finder is so slow compared to Windows Explorer. I love Windows. I love the customizability I love the speed, and even 15 years ago, there were 10X more software package for Windows than Mac. I hear that macOS in recent years (after 2019?) even allows you to change the drab grey color of the menu bar? That's progress! Maybe by 2030, they will allow you to move the menu bar to a vertical orientation because that's how a lot of people prefer it; there's less vertical space than horizontal on most monitors. I honestly cannot understand how one can stand this stifling arrangement where you are told, "This is how it is, we know better".

ubermonkey 5y ago
Do you mean the File/Edit/View menu bar, or the Dock? The Dock has been configurable forEVER. I ran it on the side for many years before switching back to the bottom.
- vijucat 5y ago
  Yes, the File/Edit/View menu bar that has to be at the top.
  - ubermonkey 5y ago
    I have never even heard of someone wanting this, let alone doing it. Are you saying you do this in Windows programs?
    - vijucat 5y ago
      This very discussion shows that two people can have differing opinions and thus, the choice should be left to the user. That is my main point. Now, on a completely different note : a little bit more about the Vertical layout. Here are two articles with screenshots. It's awesome and now I can't go back to Horizontal taskbar ever. https://www.groovypost.com/howto/howto/vertical-vs-horizontal-windows-taskbar-22947/ https://www.groovypost.com/howto/howto/vertical-vs-horizonta... https://adamhollett.com/posts/2014/02/move-your-taskbar-to-the-side/ https://adamhollett.com/posts/2014/02/move-your-taskbar-to-t...

ClumsyPilot 5y ago

"Windows, that is even in 2021 is still a clanky garbage." MacOS is useless on desktop, it can't scale DPI of UI, if that's not clanky garbage i don't know what is. My large 4K screen either acts as an oversized 1080p display or turns into a blurry mess. Android and Windows both can efficiencltly use display with any aspect ratio and any DPI.

et2o 5y ago
It scales fine for me on 4K. Do you have the most recent Mac OS?
- ClumsyPilot 5y ago
  You misunderstand - the MacOS software stack can only scale the UI to 1x,2x, 3x. So you can either use 4K display at 2X scaling, which gives you fullhd worth of realestate with Retina resolution. Or you can use it at 1x, ehich gives you tiny icons. When you use 'looks like 2560/qHD', then the OS renders to a virtual surface, pretending it has a 5K screen attached. Then it downscales that image, and outputs it. The result is janky straign lines, blurry'er text, etc. Modern Windows and Android render their UI natively in any resolution, and so you don't get issues. The caviat is that windows has 3 UI frameworks, and the oldest one is still found is some places, that's the one that doesn't scale.