5 ms·

That is a very cynical take. They are lobbying to for incentives to include HEV and Hybrid vehicles, not just BEV. https://www.energy.senate.gov/services/files

by zumu 5y ago

That is a very cynical take. They are lobbying to for incentives to include HEV and Hybrid vehicles, not just BEV. https://www.energy.senate.gov/services/files/E2EA0E4F-BAD9-452D-99CC-35BC204DE6F0 https://www.energy.senate.gov/services/files/E2EA0E4F-BAD9-4...

rcMgD2BwE72F 5y ago
Multiple studies have shown that PHEV are worst to the environment that ICE. In real conditions. Toyota is advertising HEV as "self-charging" EV, that's cynicism.
- helen___keller 5y ago
  > Multiple studies have shown that PHEV are worst to the environment that ICE. In real conditions. No, studies have shown PHEV emissions lifetime emissions are higher than expected, offering less reduction from an ICE than previously expected[0], and that some PHEVs emit more than their official sources suggest[1]. But you can use common sense here: If you take comparable cars with/without a plug-in option (e.g. prius vs prius prime), then the plug-in option emits less CO2 if you charge it frequently enough to offset (a) the added weight of the battery, and (b) whatever emissions were involved in producing the battery. Obviously, if you don't charge your PHEV, it's not any better than an ordinary ICE HEV. > Toyota is advertising HEV as "self-charging" EV This should be illegal. HEV is just an ICE with better gas mileage. [0] https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-54170207 https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-54170207 [1] https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1130586_report-plug-in-hybrids-are-polluting-more-than-claimed https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1130586_report-plug-in-...
  - zumu 5y ago
    > HEV is just an ICE with better gas mileage. I don't see how this is true as HEV _are_ electric vehicles powered by a fuel cell. Please expound on how this equates to an ICE. EDIT: My parent comment was misleading perhaps, because I used the non-standard abbreviation HEV (Hydrogen Electric Vehicle) as opposed to the more conventional FCEV (Fuel Cell Electric Vehicle).
    - helen___keller 5y ago
      oh okay I thought HEV was hybrid EV, meaning an ordinary hybrid. my bad on misunderstanding
- zumu 5y ago
  Would love to see the sources if you have them handy.
helen___keller 5y ago
On that note, the only reason I bought a plug-in prius prime, as opposed to the ordinary prius, is because incentives brought it down to a comparable price point. As it happens, when I was purchasing I was a renter with no stable charging situation. I was buying a car so I could go to open houses and shop for a condo/house. I ended up buying a condo with a small driveway (for which I installed an EVSE), but most of the units in the city don't even have that possibility. Hence, originally I had no intention of buying the plug-in model. I only got it because it was roughly the same price after incentives, and I'm thankful it worked out this way because now I charge it regularly and my day-to-day in-city trips are all electric.

by zumu 5y ago

rcMgD2BwE72F 5y ago

Multiple studies have shown that PHEV are worst to the environment that ICE. In real conditions. Toyota is advertising HEV as "self-charging" EV, that's cynicism.

helen___keller 5y ago
> Multiple studies have shown that PHEV are worst to the environment that ICE. In real conditions. No, studies have shown PHEV emissions lifetime emissions are higher than expected, offering less reduction from an ICE than previously expected[0], and that some PHEVs emit more than their official sources suggest[1]. But you can use common sense here: If you take comparable cars with/without a plug-in option (e.g. prius vs prius prime), then the plug-in option emits less CO2 if you charge it frequently enough to offset (a) the added weight of the battery, and (b) whatever emissions were involved in producing the battery. Obviously, if you don't charge your PHEV, it's not any better than an ordinary ICE HEV. > Toyota is advertising HEV as "self-charging" EV This should be illegal. HEV is just an ICE with better gas mileage. [0] https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-54170207 https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-54170207 [1] https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1130586_report-plug-in-hybrids-are-polluting-more-than-claimed https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1130586_report-plug-in-...
- zumu 5y ago
  > HEV is just an ICE with better gas mileage. I don't see how this is true as HEV _are_ electric vehicles powered by a fuel cell. Please expound on how this equates to an ICE. EDIT: My parent comment was misleading perhaps, because I used the non-standard abbreviation HEV (Hydrogen Electric Vehicle) as opposed to the more conventional FCEV (Fuel Cell Electric Vehicle).
  - helen___keller 5y ago
    oh okay I thought HEV was hybrid EV, meaning an ordinary hybrid. my bad on misunderstanding
zumu 5y ago
Would love to see the sources if you have them handy.

helen___keller 5y ago

On that note, the only reason I bought a plug-in prius prime, as opposed to the ordinary prius, is because incentives brought it down to a comparable price point. As it happens, when I was purchasing I was a renter with no stable charging situation. I was buying a car so I could go to open houses and shop for a condo/house. I ended up buying a condo with a small driveway (for which I installed an EVSE), but most of the units in the city don't even have that possibility. Hence, originally I had no intention of buying the plug-in model. I only got it because it was roughly the same price after incentives, and I'm thankful it worked out this way because now I charge it regularly and my day-to-day in-city trips are all electric.