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Mihály Csíkszentmihályi has died
- techsolomon 5y agoI just checked Flow out from the library yesterday. :( Mentions on HN: https://hacker-recommended-books.vercel.app/category/0/all-time/page/0/0/search?q=flow https://hacker-recommended-books.vercel.app/category/0/all-t...
- dsizzle 5y agoNoticed there are two other stories on the HN front page now featuring pop psychology: one on Kahneman's work and another by Dunning. I wonder if this news is part of the reason why?
- troppl 5y agoTangentially related, but has anyone here read his other book, "Creativity: The Psychology of Discovery and Invention". I loved "Flow" (his main book) so I wanted to read something else from him, but somehow it was just not the same. In the Flow book, I understood which concepts I should understand as a reader and the background of them, including individual stories, was very coherent. I can't really say the same about the other book. I would be interested what others think about this.
- relativeadv 5y agoten years ago I took a college freshman course that centered around "Creativity." I've never actually read all of Flow and so "Creativity" was my introduction to the Flow concept. I was an art student at the time so it was convenient to have source material that did the work of showing me how any of this was relevant to what I do. That said, it definitely seems like "Creativity" was a re-hash of the concepts originated within Flow. It has been a long time since I read it and should probably revisit. I often forget, but it was this book that helped me decide to become a programmer. I flip-flopped a lot between college majors and just generally what the hell it was i wanted to do for a living. The professor who ran that course asked me what job would easily create (and sustain) flow states for me. For me, it was programming that did the trick. Not even art, which i did for 12 hours a day at the time, worked quite as well.
- bprasanna 5y agoMay his soul rest in peace _/|\_
- dmos62 5y agoMay he flow in peace _/|\_
- dennis_moore 5y agoThere was a recent episode of CBC Ideas discussing him and the concept of flow in general: https://www.cbc.ca/radio/ideas/flow-making-the-impossible-possible-1.6077468 https://www.cbc.ca/radio/ideas/flow-making-the-impossible-po...
- sebmellen 5y agoThat is a remarkable last name. Never knew of this man, but getting into the “flow state” more often has become one of my core objectives in life. Sad to hear of his passing.
- froh 5y ago"Chick-sent-me-high" was given as a good approximation to pronounce his name in one of his books.
- matmatmatmat 5y agoHN readers in Hungary are just waking up to this news, but I can confirm that's a pretty decent approximation.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- kmarc 5y agocheek-sent-me-high would be even better. One of the lesser known Hungarians (even Hungarians don't really know of him), but definitely remarkable life and research.
- shaldjfb 5y agoIs chick-sent-me-holly wrong?
- yosito 5y agoYes. In Hungarian, ly is pronounced like y, the l is silent.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- vekerdyb 5y agoMe-high Cheek-sent-me-high-y would be my approximation for the full name. The Twitter post and the HN title has an extra ‘i’ after his first name. Rest in peace, nyugodj bekeben.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- romanhn 5y agoSad to hear. At one point I realized (due to his name) that three non-fiction books I read in a row all referenced his studies, despite spanning entirely different subjects. Clearly an influence on many authors and researchers.
- zaplin 5y agocan you tell us the titles of the books you've read?
- romanhn 5y agoI believe it was these three: Daniel Kahneman, "Thinking, Fast and Slow" Susan Cain, "Quiet: The Power of Introverts in a World That Can't Stop Talking" Daniel Pink, "Drive: The Surprising Truth About What Motivates Us" So, maybe not entirely unrelated, but I certainly wasn't looking for a specific theme. Just working down my non-fiction list.
- djrockstar1 5y agoMight be a strange question to ask, but do you "get" anything out of reading non-fiction? Like, is there a substantive benefit you gained from reading these books?
- ramenator 5y agoThat is an odd question to ask, lol.
- killtimeatwork 5y agoIt's a perfectly fine question. A lot of nonfiction books contain their authors' pet theories, along with a bunch of anecdotes and handwaving to make them seem justifiable or even scientific. Some of them quote "scientific" research from fields like psychology - but that research itself is hardly scientific (hence recent replication crisis) and is also used out of context in the book. As for the question if these books add value - they certainly provide entertainment for the reader, but they may also warp his view of the world (if the reader is not careful, they may become convinced that the book's thesis is true even if the evidence/ancedotes laid out are hardly conclusive).
- yosito 5y agoCsikszentmihalyi was Hungarian. I live in Hungary, and often work from a coffee shop called Flow with a Csikszentmihalyi quote on the wall, "Flow is being completely involved in an activity for its own sake. The ego falls away. Time flies. Every action, movement, and thought follows inevitably from the previous one, like playing jazz." RIP
- underyx 5y agoI love Flow, it's my favorite cafe to work from in Budapest. Can't wait to visit home so I can hang out there again.
- BostonEnginerd 5y agoThanks for the recommendation! In pre-COVID times, I would visit Budapest a few times per year. My coffee stops are usually Addicted2Caffeine on Bartok Bela, and Tamp & Pull, depending on which hotel I'm staying at. There's also Barako Kavehaz, which serves an interesting Filipino coffee varietal called Liberica Barako.
- browningstreet 5y agoI'm a regular visitor to Budapest (both parents were born there) and have added all of these to my list of things to include on my next trip.. whenever that may be (borders).
- BostonEnginerd 5y agoI really love visiting there. Hoping that I can get over there sometime soon!
- rob74 5y agoThe correct name is Mihály Csíkszentmihályi (never mind the diacritics, but the "i" appended to the first name is definitely wrong). Explanation for language nerds: Mihály is the Hungarian version of "Michael", Csíkszentmihály is a Hungarian village in Romania with a name derived from St. Michael (https://ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mih%C4%83ileni,_Harghita https://ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mih%C4%83ileni,_Harghita), and the "i" at the end denotes a toponymic surname (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toponymic_surname https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toponymic_surname).
- MadeThisToReply 5y ago"Cheeks sent me high"
- friendly_chap 5y agoHungarian here: that is a remarkably close approximation. Almost perfect, except the vowel in "me" is longer than our short "i" which sounds just like the vowel in the word "in".
- fagnerbrack 5y agoThat was copy/paste from the tweet
- madcaptenor 5y agoLooks like there are a whole bunch of towns with similar names: Csíkszentgyörgy, Csíkszentkirály, Csíkszentmiklós, ... (from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cs%C3%ADk_(disambiguation) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cs%C3%ADk_(disambiguation)) - Csík was a county of Hungary that's now in Romania, so a lot of towns in that area have Csík in their Hungarian names.
- dang 5y agoFixed in title now. Thanks!
- kmarc 5y agoFor the casual HN reader, he was the one who recognized and scientifically described the creative state of "flow" [1] Why would it be of interest for the audience of hackernews? Well, programmers and related fields' mostly creative workers tend to experience the flow, and even though it is hard to explain (or describe, for that matter) most of us agree that it's great to be in. [1]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_(psychology) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_(psychology)
- laserlight 5y agoHe didn't just describe the flow state, but also identified the conditions to achieve it. One can modify their experience according to these conditions to enter a flow state. For example, when the problem you're working on is too hard, then first work on a simplified version; or make it harder if it's too easy! When feedback cycle is long, then first make it shorter, e.g., make tests run faster, etc. I highly recommend reading his book “Flow: The Psychology of Optimal Experience”. Rest in peace sir.
- stavros 5y agoI tend to describe flow as "when an hour passes in three minutes".
- kevinmgranger 5y ago"...and you're happy with the time spent", to exclude time blindness, zoning out in a meeting, etc.
- stavros 5y agoAh yes, though those tend to be "three minutes pass in an hour" for me.
- AccountToUse 5y agoStrategy video games (Civilization series, SimCity, Total War series, Tycoon games) are right on the knife edge of this. I love the process. I love playing the game. Especially total war. I love conquering my neighboring nations and living out historical fantasies. But the next day, I feel awful.
- pjbk 5y agoOh, what a loss. I think I first heard of his work in Lyall Watson's book Neophilia in the late 80s. I was so mesmerized by the concept of flow that was always looking for anything new Csikszentmihalyi had published, or any psychology or neuroscience studies about flow and related ideas on human cognition. He will certainly be missed.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- louis___ 5y agoFor those interested in the flow state, I became convinced that this is the kind of state achieved while practicing Zazen meditation : https://zmm.org/teachings-and-training/meditation-instructions/ https://zmm.org/teachings-and-training/meditation-instructio... At one point, the only activity of being sit is the one necessary to reach the flow state.
- kashyapc 5y agoOne of my favorite quotes from his book, Flow: "The ultimate test for the ability to control the quality of experience is what a person does in solitude, with no external demands to give structure to attention. It is relatively easy to become involved with a job, to enjoy the company of friends, to be entertained in a theater or at a concert. But what happens when we are left to our own devices? Alone, when the dark night of the soul descends, are we forced into frantic attempts to distract the mind from its coming? Or are we able to take on activities that are not only enjoyable, but make the self grow?" ••• Csíkszentmihályi's Flow also introduced me to Seneca and Marcus Aurelius (although, I prefer Epictetus to Aurelius).
- akkartik 5y agoI wonder if future generations will totally misunderstand "left to own devices." No, it doesn't mean with your phone, tablet and watch.
- kashyapc 5y agoYikes ... I didn't even consider the "devices == gadgets" angle when I was writing it (I'm old enough to have lived a decent portion of my life without any gadgets and gongs). I'll be charitable and hope that a sensible future reader will situate the book in its time and place.
- DocTomoe 5y ago> Csíkszentmihályi's Flow also introduced me to Seneca and Marcus Aurelius (although, I prefer Epictetus to Aurelius). Flow led me down the rabbit hole to philosophical Daoism. It is astonishing how closely intertwined philosophy and psychology turn out to be.
- TawandaMoyo 5y agoFelt the same too. Concepts like wu wei are clearly related to flow. And Taoism has a lot of stories that relate to flow, my favorite being Cook Ding cutting up an ox.
- dredmorbius 5y agoI had a brief email exchange with Csikszentmihalyi a few years ago over a concept he'd mentioned in an Edge essay. Discussion turned to other notable Hungarians (and Austrians), including the Polanyis (Karl and Michael). He'd known their neice, Eva Zeisel Polanyi, a ceramicist, and he dropped this small-world gem: Karl Popper used to go hunting in the summers through the Carpatian Mountains with my grandfather; occasionally they were joined by August von Hayek, who later also got a Nobel in Economics . . . I learned a lot about my grandfather from him . . . And indirectly a lot from Popper, whose Das Logik Der Vorschung (translated into English with the strange title of The Logic of Scientific Discovery) was for years my Bible. I'd first heard of his Flow concept on a public radio interview I caught whilst on a road-trip through a remote rural high plateau, in the 1990s. Highly memorable and mildly surreal listening to his voice as the countryside flowed past. Vale, Mihaly.
- dredmorbius 5y agoThere've also been numerous previous discussions of Csikszentmihalyi on HN. Via Algolia search: https://hn.algolia.com/?q=Csikszentmihalyi https://hn.algolia.com/?q=Csikszentmihalyi A more complete obituary was also submitted as his death was announced though marked a dupe on HN. "Mihály Csíkszentmihályi- Flow Theory Architect, Hungarian-American Psychologist, Dies Aged 88" https://hungarytoday.hu/mihaly-csikszentmihalyi-flow-theory-architect-dies/ https://hungarytoday.hu/mihaly-csikszentmihalyi-flow-theory-... (HN submission: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28948395 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28948395)
- Koshkin 5y ago(OT) One big problem of completely different languages sharing the same alphabet is the tendency to keep the spelling of names in the original language rather than convert it to reflect the way it may be read off in your own. For the life of me I can’t even guess how to pronounce this post’s title. (Or, when you have to call a guy whose last name - in English - is Chrząszcz, what do you do?)
- thebrainkid 5y agoThe Mnemonic (which I heard from Merlin Mann's podcast) is to approximate the pronounciation of "Csikszentmihalyi" as "Chick sent me, hi"
- pronik 5y agoI can wholeheartedly recommend languages which do not care about original spelling, either by having different alphabets (was it "Хрящ" you wanted to know? Easy-peasy in Cyrillic) or just imposing their own rules (e.g. Latvian: "Mihājs Čīksentmihāji"). Elsewhere, if you are e.g. learning German, you have to at least master German, English and French pronounciation with some bits of Latin grammar.
- Koshkin 5y agoProper pronunciation is, of course is a completely separate topic, because Chrząszcz, for instance, might end up sounding like “crotch” in English, even though in the original language it sounds different but uses phonemes that are difficult to approximate.
- treszkai 5y agoHe and his name have Hungarian origins, and Hungarian words can be pronounced letter-by-letter, with emphasis on the first syllable. The main problems: what are the letters (some consist of multiple characters), and how are they pronounced. Mihály Csíkszentmihályi - M: /m/ - i: /i/ approximately as in big - h: /h/ as in “hi” - á: /aː/ as in “father” - ly: /j/ as in “yes” - Cs: /tʃ/ as in “cheek” - í: /iː/ as in “cheek” - k: /k/ as in “cheek” - sz: /s/ as in “scent” or “saint” (which means “szent” in Hungarian) - e: /e/ as in “scent” - n: /n/ as in “scent” - t: /t/ as in “scent” - mihály: as his first name - i: /i/ Overall: /ˈmihaɪ ˈtʃiːksɛntmiˌhɑːji/ ≈ mihaay cheek-scent-mihaayi https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/59/Mih%C3%A1ly_Cs%C3%ADkszentmih%C3%A1lyi.ogg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/59/Mih%C3%A...
- fallat 5y agoTangential question: Could someone tell me how you're supposed to read "Csíkszentmihályi" ? To me it seems that names are supposed to be broken up into their syllables, but I could be very wrong: Csiks-zent-mihal-yi Essentially the same as: Sixzent-mehalyee
- vladoski 5y agoIt should be something like: tcheek-sent-me-hal-yee in english
- telesilla 5y agoWith which accents? I teach and always embarrassingly stumble when I need to announce him. As a musician his work has been immensely important.
- neogodless 5y agoIf you look through the few dozen comments here, there's several threads about this. In fact, it seems to be the primary topic of conversation. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28940355 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28940355 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28944034 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28944034 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28943790 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28943790 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28941100 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28941100
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- QuestingElf 5y agoI remember a cassette set from 2 authors who referred to his works on creativity. They eventually met him and occasionally consulted. The audio said, "His last name is pronounced Chick-SENT-me-high-ee. We call him Mike!"