5 ms·
A point I want to make about the "Innovator's Dilemma" with regards to my other comment: It does not happen when everyone gets together and just agrees that "X
by Hypx_ 5y ago
A point I want to make about the "Innovator's Dilemma" with regards to my other comment: It does not happen when everyone gets together and just agrees that "X is true" with zero critical thought. It happens when a group of radicals abandon old ideas and rethinks the problem, leading to radical new ideas.
But the problem is that everyone here is just convinced that it can't happen, usually using very facile thinking. Few are asking any hard questions. As long as this stays true, hydrogen will continue to pose an enormous threat to Tesla.
- thirdlamp 5y agoHydrogen will not be a threat to any electric personal vehicle simply because it’s 3x less efficient (electrolyze water to split it) and thus 3x more expensive to run.
- Hypx_ 5y agoReally just a meme at this point. The risk here is that hydrogen cars end up being cheaper to run than electric cars. A real possibility due to the production of hydrogen from curtailed renewables, higher battery costs, hydrogen being much more efficient than believed, as well as cheaper distribution costs since hydrogen can be piped in natural gas pipelines.
- thow-58d4e8b 5y ago> hydrogen being much more efficient than believed God/Allah/Nature obviously don't understand disruption, growth mindset and can-do-spirit. facepalm There are hard physical limitations that no amount of human ingenuity can do anything about. 237kJ/mole is the theoretical minimum of energy required for water electrolysis. energy->electrolysis->energy round-trip efficiency won't exceed 45%, even if everything, from the energy source to the car wheel spinning, is perfectly frictionless and operating at peak theoretical efficiency. No, you cannot use existing gas pipelines for transporting hydrogen. For passenger cars, EVs today are already better than what physics allow hydrogen cars to ever be.
- Hypx_ 5y agoExcept you can extract 237 kJ/mole from hydrogen. A fuel cell is a battery and can approach the efficiency of a lithium-ion battery. > No, you cannot use existing gas pipelines for transporting hydrogen. You absolutely can. In fact gas companies are already planning this exact thing. > For passenger cars, EVs today are already better than what physics allow hydrogen cars to ever be. Your "physics" is entirely pseudoscience.
- jliptzin 5y agoDoes hydrogen get added back into the fuel cell as the car breaks?
- rini17 5y agoI thought too you can but it's only theoretically, not absolutely. See for example: https://youtu.be/vrKvj2MHLVw https://youtu.be/vrKvj2MHLVw
- Hypx_ 5y agoIt is fully viable: https://www.siemens-energy.com/global/en/news/magazine/2020/repurposing-natural-gas-infrastructure-for-hydrogen.html https://www.siemens-energy.com/global/en/news/magazine/2020/...
- rini17 5y agoI prefer opinion of independent expert over that of technology vendor soliciting EU's investment. But even they say "won't be before 2030" anyway.
- Hypx_ 5y agoIt will likely be a transition from blended hydrogen before reaching 100% hydrogen later. Just because it won't happen all at once doesn't mean it hasn't already started.