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The one threat they cannot win against is if batteries become obsolete in the face of advances of hydrogen fuel cell technology. This represents a disruptive ev
by Hypx_ 5y ago
The one threat they cannot win against is if batteries become obsolete in the face of advances of hydrogen fuel cell technology. This represents a disruptive event, and something they cannot easily fight against.
- TrispusAttucks 5y agoHydrogen Fuel Cells!? Yeah. Right after cold fusion. Hell freezing over. And pigs flying.
- Hypx_ 5y agoUnlike the others hydrogen fuel cells are already here.
- TrispusAttucks 5y agoThats the first sign of their failure. Hydrogen EROI is negative at 1:4 or 1:5.
- Hypx_ 5y agoAll vehicles are "negative." This doesn't make sense as a metric.
- skohan 5y agoYou can already own a fuel cell car in California
- skohan 5y agoIf I recall correctly, the math for fuel cells doesn't really work out. It's more efficient to charge a battery directly than to use energy to create hydrogen and then to convert it back into electricity. There are certain use-cases where you might want it, but probably most of the cars of the future should be battery-based EV's.
- Hypx_ 5y agoThe problem with this mentality is that is impossible to create a zero emissions grid with just batteries. You'll find that long-duration energy storage is necessary. Except this can only be solved via hydrogen energy storage. So even EVs will just be hydrogen powered cars in a lot of respects. Compared to fuel cell cars, especially plug-in fuel cell cars, EVs are the unavoidable loser. They'll be more expensive, heavier, and generally will have shorter ranges while failing to produce a real efficiency advantages.
- throwaway4220 5y agoHydrogen is a big player in grid storage but Vanadium fuel cells, pumped hydro, more grid tie-ins all have a role. As much as I’d like to believe hydrogen would be a great commuter car power plant, efficiency (and I mean well to wheel efficiency), safety of high pressure hydrogen, wear snd tear (mirai cars are not doing great after 6-7 years) need to be solved.
- Hypx_ 5y agoNone of those alternatives have anything but a minor role. The overwhelming majority of grid energy storage will be from hydrogen energy storage: https://www.econstor.eu/bitstream/10419/236723/1/Ruhnau-and-Qvist-2021-Storage-requirements-in-a-100-renewable-electricity-system-EconStor.pdf https://www.econstor.eu/bitstream/10419/236723/1/Ruhnau-and-... All of the safety and wear and tear issues have been solved. This is really just fearmongering at this point.
- throwaway4220 5y agoAs I said, I would love hydrogen to be mainstream. I can appreciate an argument that Elon musk has a whole “fool cell” army. I still don’t see the anti hydrogen conspiracy. I follow the space industry and can swine that similar challenges with hydrogen storage exist at 1 atm. Toyota (and Japan) still haven’t done much H2 stuff for nearly a decade despite their awesome success with the Prius. Would love to be proven wrong.