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Wrong. I tried to find the tweet, but it was succinctly put ~"it's said people in Los Angeles love their cars, but people in LA have no choice but to own a car

Wrong. I tried to find the tweet, but it was succinctly put ~"it's said people in Los Angeles love their cars, but people in LA have no choice but to own a car, it's not love, it is necessity". In every city that has made a concerted effort to accommodate all modes of transport, driving as a percentage has gone down. "build it and they will come" is better suited to transport than it ever was to SaaS. It is easy to conclude that people don't "want" to drive.

AlgorithmicTime 5y ago
Look, the fact is, even in places with excellent public transport, the car is still the best way to travel short of helicopter. How do we know this? Look at the rich and powerful of New York, they are driven to their destinations, they don't take the subway, and if they do, it's notably unusual.
dymk 5y ago
“It’s said that” is not the same as “polls show” and then linking to a source LA is also cherry picked to be one of the worst places for cars. It’s legendary for its traffic. Writing in from the PNW where I wouldn’t trade my car, and the freedom it gives me and my friends and my dogs to travel, for anything.
- forgotmyoldname 5y ago
  I lived in the PNW and loved that I could take a bus just about anywhere. It was a big draw for me. If it was a hellscape dominated by 26 lane highways and hours of traffic to get anywhere like many parts of the US, I never would've bothered moving there.
  - dymk 5y ago
    The whole of the PNW is not a city or specially designated hiking trail, and 99% of where you could go in the region was not accessible by bus routes.
- BrianHenryIE 5y ago
  I gotta hand it to you, in response I searched DuckDuckGo for: "people in los angeles love their cars" and the top result was "People in Los Angeles Are Getting Rid Of Their Cars" Hypothetically, if one person had to die every time you used your car (for your dogs to travel or whatever) would you stop using your car? How about if it were one person for every 1000 journeys. What if every single journey you made in your car had a very small and undeniable contribution to the deaths of people you live around, would you stop then?
  - dymk 5y ago
    "People in Los Angeles Are Getting Rid Of Their Cars" is a headline meant to generate clicks, posted with no context, statistics, or discussion. Are you a vegan? Hypothetically, how many people have to die due to the greenhouse gasses emitted due to your meat consumption? Have you ever served somebody an egg that didn't have a fully cooked yolk? Do you consume any single-use plastics? Do you use a compost toilet? We could go on and on.
    - BrianHenryIE 5y ago
      > it's said people in Los Angeles love their cars doesn't need a survey or study. Are you disputing the perception that Los Angeles is a car-centric city? > Are you a vegan? Yes.
      - dymk 5y ago
        > I tried to find the tweet, but it was succinctly put ~"it's said people in Los Angeles love their cars, but people in LA have no choice but to own a car, it's not love, it is necessity". This is the part that needs a study or survey to back it up. If we're just throwing around anecdotes, I've both driven a car and taken the bus in a city that was known for its mass transit, and the mass transit sucked compared to being in a car. > Yes. And how about the rest? I'm just making sure we're being consistent, and that you optimize all your life choices to avoid any possibility of harming someone, no matter how remote or indirect.
xibalba 5y ago
1 minute of Googling: "81% of Americans agree with the sentiment that their car reflects who they are...59% consider themselves as someone who is passionate about cars, trucks, motorcycles, or other vehicles" [1] 78% of Americans personally enjoy driving moderately to greatly [2] > Wrong. > In every city that has made a concerted effort to accommodate all modes of transport These are strong claims without citation. Your subsequent comments in this thread reveal a fairly extreme and inflexible viewpoint on cars which you advance through many logical fallacies (straw men, false dilemma, and hasty generalizations). In other words, I don't think you're evaluating this issue in good faith or rationally. So, I'm not going to engage beyond this comment. The main point of my initial comment was to point out that this "walk-able utopia" goal is not shared by a great number of people and contravening both the will of the majority and the current state is an exercise in futility and thus a waste of a society's time and resources. [1] https://www.ipsos.com/en-us/news-polls/american-attitudes-on-automobiles https://www.ipsos.com/en-us/news-polls/american-attitudes-on... [2] https://news.gallup.com/poll/234416/driverless-cars-tough-sell-americans.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/234416/driverless-cars-tough-se...

AlgorithmicTime 5y ago

Look, the fact is, even in places with excellent public transport, the car is still the best way to travel short of helicopter. How do we know this? Look at the rich and powerful of New York, they are driven to their destinations, they don't take the subway, and if they do, it's notably unusual.

dymk 5y ago

“It’s said that” is not the same as “polls show” and then linking to a source LA is also cherry picked to be one of the worst places for cars. It’s legendary for its traffic. Writing in from the PNW where I wouldn’t trade my car, and the freedom it gives me and my friends and my dogs to travel, for anything.

forgotmyoldname 5y ago
I lived in the PNW and loved that I could take a bus just about anywhere. It was a big draw for me. If it was a hellscape dominated by 26 lane highways and hours of traffic to get anywhere like many parts of the US, I never would've bothered moving there.
- dymk 5y ago
  The whole of the PNW is not a city or specially designated hiking trail, and 99% of where you could go in the region was not accessible by bus routes.
BrianHenryIE 5y ago
I gotta hand it to you, in response I searched DuckDuckGo for: "people in los angeles love their cars" and the top result was "People in Los Angeles Are Getting Rid Of Their Cars" Hypothetically, if one person had to die every time you used your car (for your dogs to travel or whatever) would you stop using your car? How about if it were one person for every 1000 journeys. What if every single journey you made in your car had a very small and undeniable contribution to the deaths of people you live around, would you stop then?
- dymk 5y ago
  "People in Los Angeles Are Getting Rid Of Their Cars" is a headline meant to generate clicks, posted with no context, statistics, or discussion. Are you a vegan? Hypothetically, how many people have to die due to the greenhouse gasses emitted due to your meat consumption? Have you ever served somebody an egg that didn't have a fully cooked yolk? Do you consume any single-use plastics? Do you use a compost toilet? We could go on and on.
  - BrianHenryIE 5y ago
    > it's said people in Los Angeles love their cars doesn't need a survey or study. Are you disputing the perception that Los Angeles is a car-centric city? > Are you a vegan? Yes.
    - dymk 5y ago
      > I tried to find the tweet, but it was succinctly put ~"it's said people in Los Angeles love their cars, but people in LA have no choice but to own a car, it's not love, it is necessity". This is the part that needs a study or survey to back it up. If we're just throwing around anecdotes, I've both driven a car and taken the bus in a city that was known for its mass transit, and the mass transit sucked compared to being in a car. > Yes. And how about the rest? I'm just making sure we're being consistent, and that you optimize all your life choices to avoid any possibility of harming someone, no matter how remote or indirect.

xibalba 5y ago

1 minute of Googling: "81% of Americans agree with the sentiment that their car reflects who they are...59% consider themselves as someone who is passionate about cars, trucks, motorcycles, or other vehicles" [1] 78% of Americans personally enjoy driving moderately to greatly [2] > Wrong. > In every city that has made a concerted effort to accommodate all modes of transport These are strong claims without citation. Your subsequent comments in this thread reveal a fairly extreme and inflexible viewpoint on cars which you advance through many logical fallacies (straw men, false dilemma, and hasty generalizations). In other words, I don't think you're evaluating this issue in good faith or rationally. So, I'm not going to engage beyond this comment. The main point of my initial comment was to point out that this "walk-able utopia" goal is not shared by a great number of people and contravening both the will of the majority and the current state is an exercise in futility and thus a waste of a society's time and resources. [1] https://www.ipsos.com/en-us/news-polls/american-attitudes-on-automobiles https://www.ipsos.com/en-us/news-polls/american-attitudes-on... [2] https://news.gallup.com/poll/234416/driverless-cars-tough-sell-americans.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/234416/driverless-cars-tough-se...