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It is all back during full screen mode. Another commenter in the huge Apple MBP launch thread from Monday claimed it was extra pixels for the menu bar. Mac Rum

by wil421 5y ago

It is all back during full screen mode. Another commenter in the huge Apple MBP launch thread from Monday claimed it was extra pixels for the menu bar. Mac Rumors has a short article with screenshots of Xcode in full screen.[1] > According to Apple's marketing material, when macOS apps are in full-screen mode, macOS places an artificial black bezel at the top of the display that essentially hides the notch. When users are not in full-screen macOS apps, the notch remains, and the macOS Menu Bar has been made thicker to accommodate the notch. [1] https://www.macrumors.com/2021/10/18/macos-hides-notch-on-new-macbook-pros/amp/ https://www.macrumors.com/2021/10/18/macos-hides-notch-on-ne...

tfehring 5y ago
There’s a flag that Mac application developers can set indicating whether their application can handle the extra screen space when in full screen mode. There are three modes, on off and null (the default). On = application uses that space however the developer chooses, off = black bar, null = user-configurable, with black bar by default. Sadly I’m on mobile and can’t find the Apple’s developer documentation for the flag, I saw it on HN the other day.
Waterluvian 5y ago
So if I’m parsing this properly, this whole thing is just an illogical overreaction of perception and not reality?
- elzbardico 5y ago
  Yep
- floatingatoll 5y ago
  Well, it's not illogical. It's a logical consequence of how human perception interprets "viewing a thing with a notch" greatly different from "using a thing with a notch". If you're a driver, you're familiar with this; photos of cars clearly show these obstructing pillars left and right of the windshield, but in practice when driving, you get so used to working around them that you don't take conscious note of them anymore. That's why Apple said about the iPhone notch "trust us, you won't care", and sure enough, their users mostly don't care. (Yes, it's still a good idea to reduce the blind spot of pillars, since lots of drivers don't bother looking around them to see if there's a person there. But the good drivers that do look around them still don't notice the pillars – they just move their head and look around them without taking much conscious notice of the pillar or the workaround.) I could imagine this is because we need to be able to pay attention through a forest, and so whether or not there's a tree blocking one arc-degree of your field of view is ultimately irrelevant to paying attention in a forest, and that car pillars (and cracked windshields, and dangling objects hanging from rearview mirrors) fall into the same general bucket.
- wil421 5y ago
  All eyes are on Apple and with each change or new release people are going to praise and shit on them. Still trying to it figure out myself. According to some articles like the Mac Rumors one it’s no big deal. If you read some of the Verge stuff hell is freezing over. Personally I have an M1 Air and trying to figure out if a 14” M1 Max is worth it. The M1 Air is only slightly slower than a 2017 mid spec 15” I have encoding in handbrake. I’ve been doing some Final Cut Pro work for family/personal videos that could benefit.
- skinnymuch 5y ago
  Yes. There are some long answers to this, but yeah. I had heard about the annoying notch on newer iPhones for years. I have an iPhone 13 now. I have never noticed the notch. Looking up right now is probably the first time I’ve noticed it while using the phone.
  - dcormier 5y ago
    I find the notch on my iPhone to be _incredibly_ annoying. It's by far the worst when in YouTube, where it covers a huge chunk of the video and UI elements when not full screened.
    - plandis 5y ago
      I don’t get this? I was just watching YouTube on my iPhone and the notch never covers any of the UI elements in either portrait or landscape? In portrait mode it’s got the clock and wifi elements on either side of the notch and when watching videos in landscape both sides of the phone are just black bars including the notch. Edit: Even zooming in on the video doesn’t hide UI elements only whatever portion of the video overlaps the notch.
      - dcormier 5y ago
        https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28949093 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28949093
    - carnitine 5y ago
      I just tested it, I can find no UI action in the YouTube app where the video or UI elements are obscured by the notch. It just has the time and wifi/battery status on either side.
      - dcormier 5y ago
        If I have a video up in portrait, and tap on or pause the video to expose the UI elements that overlay the video (Chromecast, closed caption, and overflow buttons), they're all at the top of the phone. The Chromecast button is obscured by the notch and I cannot get the visible part to respond to taps. The corner of the closed caption button is covered, and it's partially overlapping the radio signal indictators. There seems to be only a very small portion of the bottom edge of the button that responds to taps. It's very hard to tap successfully. The overflow button is not obscured by the notch, but is partially overlapping the battery indicator. Like the closed caption button, there seems to be only a small portion of the bottom edge of it that will respond to taps. It's so frustrating. Here's a screenshot showing it, except for the notch which Apple doesn't include in screenshots: https://i.imgur.com/0KDIWEB.jpg https://i.imgur.com/0KDIWEB.jpg The notch covers the top half of the Chromecast button, and just touches the top-left corner of the closed caption button (the notch is curving back up, at that point).
- andreareina 5y ago
  I have a 13" MBP, and I use the full width of the menu bar, and then some: there are icons/utilities that get hidden for lack of space, depending on the current application. So the notch would be a step backward for me in reality.

by wil421 5y ago

tfehring 5y ago

There’s a flag that Mac application developers can set indicating whether their application can handle the extra screen space when in full screen mode. There are three modes, on off and null (the default). On = application uses that space however the developer chooses, off = black bar, null = user-configurable, with black bar by default. Sadly I’m on mobile and can’t find the Apple’s developer documentation for the flag, I saw it on HN the other day.

Waterluvian 5y ago

So if I’m parsing this properly, this whole thing is just an illogical overreaction of perception and not reality?

elzbardico 5y ago
Yep
floatingatoll 5y ago
Well, it's not illogical. It's a logical consequence of how human perception interprets "viewing a thing with a notch" greatly different from "using a thing with a notch". If you're a driver, you're familiar with this; photos of cars clearly show these obstructing pillars left and right of the windshield, but in practice when driving, you get so used to working around them that you don't take conscious note of them anymore. That's why Apple said about the iPhone notch "trust us, you won't care", and sure enough, their users mostly don't care. (Yes, it's still a good idea to reduce the blind spot of pillars, since lots of drivers don't bother looking around them to see if there's a person there. But the good drivers that do look around them still don't notice the pillars – they just move their head and look around them without taking much conscious notice of the pillar or the workaround.) I could imagine this is because we need to be able to pay attention through a forest, and so whether or not there's a tree blocking one arc-degree of your field of view is ultimately irrelevant to paying attention in a forest, and that car pillars (and cracked windshields, and dangling objects hanging from rearview mirrors) fall into the same general bucket.
wil421 5y ago
All eyes are on Apple and with each change or new release people are going to praise and shit on them. Still trying to it figure out myself. According to some articles like the Mac Rumors one it’s no big deal. If you read some of the Verge stuff hell is freezing over. Personally I have an M1 Air and trying to figure out if a 14” M1 Max is worth it. The M1 Air is only slightly slower than a 2017 mid spec 15” I have encoding in handbrake. I’ve been doing some Final Cut Pro work for family/personal videos that could benefit.
skinnymuch 5y ago
Yes. There are some long answers to this, but yeah. I had heard about the annoying notch on newer iPhones for years. I have an iPhone 13 now. I have never noticed the notch. Looking up right now is probably the first time I’ve noticed it while using the phone.
- dcormier 5y ago
  I find the notch on my iPhone to be _incredibly_ annoying. It's by far the worst when in YouTube, where it covers a huge chunk of the video and UI elements when not full screened.
  - plandis 5y ago
    I don’t get this? I was just watching YouTube on my iPhone and the notch never covers any of the UI elements in either portrait or landscape? In portrait mode it’s got the clock and wifi elements on either side of the notch and when watching videos in landscape both sides of the phone are just black bars including the notch. Edit: Even zooming in on the video doesn’t hide UI elements only whatever portion of the video overlaps the notch.
    - dcormier 5y ago
      https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28949093 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28949093
  - carnitine 5y ago
    I just tested it, I can find no UI action in the YouTube app where the video or UI elements are obscured by the notch. It just has the time and wifi/battery status on either side.
    - dcormier 5y ago
      If I have a video up in portrait, and tap on or pause the video to expose the UI elements that overlay the video (Chromecast, closed caption, and overflow buttons), they're all at the top of the phone. The Chromecast button is obscured by the notch and I cannot get the visible part to respond to taps. The corner of the closed caption button is covered, and it's partially overlapping the radio signal indictators. There seems to be only a very small portion of the bottom edge of the button that responds to taps. It's very hard to tap successfully. The overflow button is not obscured by the notch, but is partially overlapping the battery indicator. Like the closed caption button, there seems to be only a small portion of the bottom edge of it that will respond to taps. It's so frustrating. Here's a screenshot showing it, except for the notch which Apple doesn't include in screenshots: https://i.imgur.com/0KDIWEB.jpg https://i.imgur.com/0KDIWEB.jpg The notch covers the top half of the Chromecast button, and just touches the top-left corner of the closed caption button (the notch is curving back up, at that point).
andreareina 5y ago
I have a 13" MBP, and I use the full width of the menu bar, and then some: there are icons/utilities that get hidden for lack of space, depending on the current application. So the notch would be a step backward for me in reality.