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It's unbelievable that the established auto makers are just falling further and further behind on EVs while Tesla is opening the market wider and wider.

by tootie 5y ago

marticode 5y ago
This is completely unsubstantiated. In 2020, Tesla had about 1/4 of the EV market and 1/6 if you count plug-in hybrids. This is big but not overwhelming considering they were the first to market with a serious product. I have not seen any recent market share for 2021 but given onslaught of new products from every legacy car maker, I see no reason to believe they are falling behind. If anything, they are catching up. https://insideevs.com/news/486325/world-top-ev-automotive-groups-2020/ https://insideevs.com/news/486325/world-top-ev-automotive-gr...
poorjohnmacafee 5y ago
Even so it seems the administration pretends they don't exist [1] or even wants to take their marketshare [2]. The established automakers have a cozier relationship with the established politicians I guess. [1] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-08-05/biden-snubs-non-union-ev-makers-at-event-promoting-evs https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-08-05/biden-snu... [2] https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/14/tesla-toyota-and-honda-criticize-4500-tax-credit-for-union-made-evs.html https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/14/tesla-toyota-and-honda-criti...
- jonny_eh 5y ago
  > The established automakers You misspelled "unions".
mym1990 5y ago
Is it though? Tesla had a vision for EVs from the very beginning and most of the industry really didn't believe Tesla would see the light at the end of the tunnel, so they put off becoming competitors. Now Tesla is hitting an incredible stride and the rest of the car manufacturers are scrambling to put something together.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
anonporridge 5y ago
But, Biden praised GM and Ford for leading the EV revolution! /s
- FireBeyond 5y ago
  Of course Elon and the pro Tesla media spun it that way. Biden praised GM and Ford as two of the _traditional automakers_ who had showed the most willingness to embrace the EV revolution.
  - rcMgD2BwE72F 5y ago
    Biden praised everyone expect Tesla (GM, Ford and Stelantis). For leading EV, lol. This makes zero sense, given how these traditional automakers are dragging their feets. Unless they expect to, once again, be helped by the government when things will get ugly.
    - anonporridge 5y ago
      Honestly, it makes some amount of sense. Being generous, the thinking might be that you praise the slow kids who struggle to learn when they are successful in order to motivate and encourage them to keep going. The kid who's a natural talent and highly self motivated doesn't necessarily need accolades from authority figures. Still feels cheap, and only a fool wouldn't see how ridiculous the praise is.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
dlp211 5y ago
The Ford F-150 Lightning is about to drop. VW group is making massive investments in EVs. BMWs vision is to be the premier green automaker by 2030. Don't act like these companies are still sitting on their hands. In < 5 years from now, the best selling EV will be the F-150 Lightning.
- tootie 5y ago
  That's partly my point though. The big guys all realized which way the wind was blowing about 7 years after it should have been obvious and are still figuring out what to invest in. Tesla could barely get a car off it's assembly line not too long ago and they have most of the market share. They should have caught up a while ago instead of making promises for 2030.
- supperburg 5y ago
  No, it won’t. People who drive f150s want a super-duty, not a tesla. They want dualies, lift kits. I’m sure Ford did their market research to make sure it would sell. The bean counters also confidently predicted trump would lose in ‘16. But I predicted he would win and I predict the lightning will lose. Plus you’ve forgotten the most important part: Ford fucking sucks. They can’t make a good EV, apparently not even on paper and certainly not in any physical sense. They have no charging infrastructure. All they have is an army of slack jawed idiots who buy Ford vehicles on principle.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - skohan 5y ago
    > But I predicted he would win and I predict the lightning will lose. You made one correct prediction in a completely different domain 5 years ago, and this is relevant how? Keep in mind that the F150 has been the most popular vehicle in the US for many decades. You might be in a bubble where it seems irrelevant but those "slack jawed idiots" buy a lot of vehicles.
- flutas 5y ago
  > The Ford F-150 Lighting is about to drop. (…) In < 5 years from now, the best selling EV will be the F-150 Lighting. Copied from another comment… > They're planning on making:[1] > 2022: 15,000 > 2023: 55,000 > 2024: 80,000 [1] https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-news/ford-f-150-lightning-e https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-news/ford-f-150-lightning-e... So I don’t really see how you think the F-150 lightning will be the best selling EV in < 5 years when they don’t even plan on making 200k of them in the first three years.
garyfirestorm 5y ago
https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/chrysler/2021/10/19/stellantis-lg-energy-ev-battery-production/8512107002/ https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/chrysler/2021/10/19/s...

It's unbelievable that the established auto makers are just falling further and further behind on EVs while Tesla is opening the market wider and wider.

by tootie 5y ago

It's unbelievable that the established auto makers are just falling further and further behind on EVs while Tesla is opening the market wider and wider.

marticode 5y ago

This is completely unsubstantiated. In 2020, Tesla had about 1/4 of the EV market and 1/6 if you count plug-in hybrids. This is big but not overwhelming considering they were the first to market with a serious product. I have not seen any recent market share for 2021 but given onslaught of new products from every legacy car maker, I see no reason to believe they are falling behind. If anything, they are catching up. https://insideevs.com/news/486325/world-top-ev-automotive-groups-2020/ https://insideevs.com/news/486325/world-top-ev-automotive-gr...

poorjohnmacafee 5y ago

Even so it seems the administration pretends they don't exist [1] or even wants to take their marketshare [2]. The established automakers have a cozier relationship with the established politicians I guess. [1] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-08-05/biden-snubs-non-union-ev-makers-at-event-promoting-evs https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-08-05/biden-snu... [2] https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/14/tesla-toyota-and-honda-criticize-4500-tax-credit-for-union-made-evs.html https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/14/tesla-toyota-and-honda-criti...

jonny_eh 5y ago
> The established automakers You misspelled "unions".

mym1990 5y ago

Is it though? Tesla had a vision for EVs from the very beginning and most of the industry really didn't believe Tesla would see the light at the end of the tunnel, so they put off becoming competitors. Now Tesla is hitting an incredible stride and the rest of the car manufacturers are scrambling to put something together.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

anonporridge 5y ago

But, Biden praised GM and Ford for leading the EV revolution! /s

FireBeyond 5y ago
Of course Elon and the pro Tesla media spun it that way. Biden praised GM and Ford as two of the _traditional automakers_ who had showed the most willingness to embrace the EV revolution.
- rcMgD2BwE72F 5y ago
  Biden praised everyone expect Tesla (GM, Ford and Stelantis). For leading EV, lol. This makes zero sense, given how these traditional automakers are dragging their feets. Unless they expect to, once again, be helped by the government when things will get ugly.
  - anonporridge 5y ago
    Honestly, it makes some amount of sense. Being generous, the thinking might be that you praise the slow kids who struggle to learn when they are successful in order to motivate and encourage them to keep going. The kid who's a natural talent and highly self motivated doesn't necessarily need accolades from authority figures. Still feels cheap, and only a fool wouldn't see how ridiculous the praise is.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

dlp211 5y ago

The Ford F-150 Lightning is about to drop. VW group is making massive investments in EVs. BMWs vision is to be the premier green automaker by 2030. Don't act like these companies are still sitting on their hands. In < 5 years from now, the best selling EV will be the F-150 Lightning.

tootie 5y ago
That's partly my point though. The big guys all realized which way the wind was blowing about 7 years after it should have been obvious and are still figuring out what to invest in. Tesla could barely get a car off it's assembly line not too long ago and they have most of the market share. They should have caught up a while ago instead of making promises for 2030.
supperburg 5y ago
No, it won’t. People who drive f150s want a super-duty, not a tesla. They want dualies, lift kits. I’m sure Ford did their market research to make sure it would sell. The bean counters also confidently predicted trump would lose in ‘16. But I predicted he would win and I predict the lightning will lose. Plus you’ve forgotten the most important part: Ford fucking sucks. They can’t make a good EV, apparently not even on paper and certainly not in any physical sense. They have no charging infrastructure. All they have is an army of slack jawed idiots who buy Ford vehicles on principle.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- skohan 5y ago
  > But I predicted he would win and I predict the lightning will lose. You made one correct prediction in a completely different domain 5 years ago, and this is relevant how? Keep in mind that the F150 has been the most popular vehicle in the US for many decades. You might be in a bubble where it seems irrelevant but those "slack jawed idiots" buy a lot of vehicles.
flutas 5y ago
> The Ford F-150 Lighting is about to drop. (…) In < 5 years from now, the best selling EV will be the F-150 Lighting. Copied from another comment… > They're planning on making:[1] > 2022: 15,000 > 2023: 55,000 > 2024: 80,000 [1] https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-news/ford-f-150-lightning-e https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-news/ford-f-150-lightning-e... So I don’t really see how you think the F-150 lightning will be the best selling EV in < 5 years when they don’t even plan on making 200k of them in the first three years.

garyfirestorm 5y ago

https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/chrysler/2021/10/19/stellantis-lg-energy-ev-battery-production/8512107002/ https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/chrysler/2021/10/19/s...