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The holy grail of insurance: each person’s individual risk behavior monitored by AI.

missedthecue 5y ago
Progressive patented this in 1998 https://patents.google.com/patent/US5797134A/en https://patents.google.com/patent/US5797134A/en
t0mas88 5y ago
The worst nightmare of consumer privacy: A car that monitors your every move.
- gervwyk 5y ago
  My wife activated this on her insurance. Got an email last week saying that she is in the top 5% of “worst drivers”. Which was both scary and funny at the same time. We investigated why they deduct so much points for her driving, and the majority of the points was conducted for her being on het phone while driving. Then we realized that we drive around with her car most often and she is on the the phone while I drive.. These models has it’s problems but they are getting better - it’s just so easy to make wrong assumptions from ML models which only include a subset of variables.
  - xkcd-sucks 5y ago
    So it is measured with a phone app and not e.g. an OBD dongle with built-in cell modem? Why not install the app on a second phone which always gets left at home?
  - mensetmanusman 5y ago
    “Congrats you win worse driver in America award!” How do you inspire the lowest performers?
  - malshe 5y ago
    Coming up next, a fingerprint sensor on the steering wheel to determine who is driving!
    - trhway 5y ago
      and a mental state, attentiveness, etc. sensor - "Your driving performance in the next hour is estimated to be 10% worst than your average, and will incur 20% insurance premium increase for that trip. Do you still wish to start the car? "
      - malshe 5y ago
        Me: No, I wish to sit in the car and bang my head on the steering :(
    - bitcurious 5y ago
      I think the new Genesis cars have this as a feature, on the start button. The upside is you don’t need to carry keys.
- crancher 5y ago
  We're on the path where each of is monitored by (hopefully benevolent) AI from birth to death. Such a scenario is really the only way for humanity.com to continue scaling, as each of us has the potential to very negatively disrupt anything/everything.
jandrese 5y ago
If this were accurately reflected in the rates I'd be interested, but past experience suggests that it's going to be more like "if you drive perfect you might get $5/month savings, but if you brake hard that one time your rate will shoot up by $50/month". You assume extra risk that the company won't screw you over for what is likely to be a very modest upside. There are lots of case studies of people who got massive unexpected bills because they were trying to save a few bucks. Especially since they will be able to assign the blame to the customer for their high rates. Never trust corporations more than you have to.
- pmorici 5y ago
  When FSD matures it won’t matter how good of a driver you are it will matter what percentage of time you let it drive you.
- missedthecue 5y ago
  Hmm. Car insurance is one of the most competitive industries in the US. Lots of players, slim margins, commodity product, etc... I wonder how long a company could charge people $50 more for braking hard and not lose customers. I know if I saw a surprise like that, I'd be getting quotes immediately.
  - zbrozek 5y ago
    There's lots of places where tiny upsides come with huge downsides. And yet for some reason people still accept them! My partner's manager signed up for a summer energy program that could cut off her HVAC system in exchange for a super-paltry discount on her monthly electricity bill. She cursed her decisions a few hours in to the next heat wave.
  - diebeforei485 5y ago
    I don't think they are all that competitive when it comes to insuring electric cars.
    - missedthecue 5y ago
notJim 5y ago
Traditional insurance companies have been offering a version of this for a while now. Apparently the term of art is usage-based insurance. https://wallethub.com/edu/ci/usage-based-insurance/14118 https://wallethub.com/edu/ci/usage-based-insurance/14118
gregable 5y ago
The issue with this is that in the limit it just makes the insurance premium exactly equal the payout + some margin. Some of the point of insurance is cost sharing of extreme events. It's perhaps a little better when we are talking about behaviors that are entirely under the driver's control, but gets potentially ugly if for example someone has slower reaction time due to genetics or health and thus gets priced out of insurance.
- leetcrew 5y ago
  > Some of the point of insurance is cost sharing of extreme events. I guess this borders on a philosophical point, but I don't agree. car insurance is not (or shouldn't be, imo) a payment plan for likely crashes. if, for whatever reason, a person's reaction times are so slow that they would be priced out of insurance entirely, they shouldn't be behind the wheel at all.
- throwaway0a5e 5y ago
  >The issue with this is that in the limit it just makes the insurance premium exactly equal the payout + some margin. At which point there's no point in insurance, it's a glorified bond or escrow service depending on how you squint.

Progressive patented this in 1998 https://patents.google.com/patent/US5797134A/en https://patents.google.com/patent/US5797134A/en

t0mas88 5y ago

The worst nightmare of consumer privacy: A car that monitors your every move.

gervwyk 5y ago
My wife activated this on her insurance. Got an email last week saying that she is in the top 5% of “worst drivers”. Which was both scary and funny at the same time. We investigated why they deduct so much points for her driving, and the majority of the points was conducted for her being on het phone while driving. Then we realized that we drive around with her car most often and she is on the the phone while I drive.. These models has it’s problems but they are getting better - it’s just so easy to make wrong assumptions from ML models which only include a subset of variables.
- xkcd-sucks 5y ago
  So it is measured with a phone app and not e.g. an OBD dongle with built-in cell modem? Why not install the app on a second phone which always gets left at home?
- mensetmanusman 5y ago
  “Congrats you win worse driver in America award!” How do you inspire the lowest performers?
- malshe 5y ago
  Coming up next, a fingerprint sensor on the steering wheel to determine who is driving!
  - trhway 5y ago
    and a mental state, attentiveness, etc. sensor - "Your driving performance in the next hour is estimated to be 10% worst than your average, and will incur 20% insurance premium increase for that trip. Do you still wish to start the car? "
    - malshe 5y ago
      Me: No, I wish to sit in the car and bang my head on the steering :(
  - bitcurious 5y ago
    I think the new Genesis cars have this as a feature, on the start button. The upside is you don’t need to carry keys.
crancher 5y ago
We're on the path where each of is monitored by (hopefully benevolent) AI from birth to death. Such a scenario is really the only way for humanity.com to continue scaling, as each of us has the potential to very negatively disrupt anything/everything.

jandrese 5y ago

If this were accurately reflected in the rates I'd be interested, but past experience suggests that it's going to be more like "if you drive perfect you might get $5/month savings, but if you brake hard that one time your rate will shoot up by $50/month". You assume extra risk that the company won't screw you over for what is likely to be a very modest upside. There are lots of case studies of people who got massive unexpected bills because they were trying to save a few bucks. Especially since they will be able to assign the blame to the customer for their high rates. Never trust corporations more than you have to.

pmorici 5y ago
When FSD matures it won’t matter how good of a driver you are it will matter what percentage of time you let it drive you.
missedthecue 5y ago
Hmm. Car insurance is one of the most competitive industries in the US. Lots of players, slim margins, commodity product, etc... I wonder how long a company could charge people $50 more for braking hard and not lose customers. I know if I saw a surprise like that, I'd be getting quotes immediately.
- zbrozek 5y ago
  There's lots of places where tiny upsides come with huge downsides. And yet for some reason people still accept them! My partner's manager signed up for a summer energy program that could cut off her HVAC system in exchange for a super-paltry discount on her monthly electricity bill. She cursed her decisions a few hours in to the next heat wave.
- diebeforei485 5y ago
  I don't think they are all that competitive when it comes to insuring electric cars.
  - missedthecue 5y ago

notJim 5y ago

Traditional insurance companies have been offering a version of this for a while now. Apparently the term of art is usage-based insurance. https://wallethub.com/edu/ci/usage-based-insurance/14118 https://wallethub.com/edu/ci/usage-based-insurance/14118

gregable 5y ago

The issue with this is that in the limit it just makes the insurance premium exactly equal the payout + some margin. Some of the point of insurance is cost sharing of extreme events. It's perhaps a little better when we are talking about behaviors that are entirely under the driver's control, but gets potentially ugly if for example someone has slower reaction time due to genetics or health and thus gets priced out of insurance.

leetcrew 5y ago
> Some of the point of insurance is cost sharing of extreme events. I guess this borders on a philosophical point, but I don't agree. car insurance is not (or shouldn't be, imo) a payment plan for likely crashes. if, for whatever reason, a person's reaction times are so slow that they would be priced out of insurance entirely, they shouldn't be behind the wheel at all.
throwaway0a5e 5y ago
>The issue with this is that in the limit it just makes the insurance premium exactly equal the payout + some margin. At which point there's no point in insurance, it's a glorified bond or escrow service depending on how you squint.