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At the end of that episode, after being tracked into a genius school due to cheating on his intelligence test, Bart confesses that he's "just a regular dumb kid

At the end of that episode, after being tracked into a genius school due to cheating on his intelligence test, Bart confesses that he's "just a regular dumb kid," and begs to go back to regular school. So I'm not sure it's making the point you intend. But as much as I love the Simpsons, I'm not sure of its value as evidence in a policy discussion either way.

chongli 5y ago
I think you’re actually in agreement with the GP. The quote: “Now I don’t want you to worry, class, these tests will have no effect on your grades. They merely determine your future social status and success, if any.” — Mrs. Krabappel As you pointed out, Bart admits to cheating and gets sent back to his ordinary class. The GP’s point is that these tests merely determine who will be admitted to the “gifted and talented” classes, not who will succeed in them, and the Simpson’s episode bears that out. If there were a more accurate way of predicting success in gifted classes then we should use that instead of standardized test scores.
- allturtles 5y ago
  I don't want to get into a whole thing over this Simpsons episode, which I think everyone agrees is moot, but he fails in the new class because he cheated and used someone else's score, not because the scores (absent cheating) aren't predictive of success.
hn_throwaway_99 5y ago
Yikes, talk about missing the forest for the trees. I'm not using the Simpsons episode as "evidence", I just thought Mrs. Krabapple's statement of "Now I don’t want you to worry, class, these tests will have no effect on your grades. They merely determine your future social status and success, if any." was such a hilarious statement, and while of course it is hyperbolic, does have evidence to support the gist, that leading kids into different "tracts" at such an early age can have an outsized effect on their life, and that effect can be unwarranted based on what can be small differences in the "cutoff" to get into gifted programs.
- belorn 5y ago
  Schools should design the education to the needs of the individual. If a "tract" would benefit everyone then the education program should be changed for everyone. The Simpsons episode however is more designed towards the social status aspect. If being in a gifted program grants status, without any connection to the education conducted within the program, all we are simply describing is moving kids into segregated groups of those that has money and power and those that doesn't. The actually program itself has no meaning and could as easily be renamed as the rich people club (private schools?) with the same education material and program as everyone else. When it comes to people on the lower end of the IQ spectrum, we do see that a single test would not work to determine which tract a student should follow. A failing test could be a sign of low IQ where the student need to be at a school for children with special needs, or it could just be a temporary setback where the regular program is perfectly suitable. In border cases there would basically be an extended period of testing and trial attempts to see which one would be best suited to the individual. In theory the same process should be on the higher end of the IQ spectrum. If you got a border case where a individual is just slightly above or below the qualifications for a gifted program then what would be best for the individual would be to extended the testing phase and see where they develop best.

chongli 5y ago

I think you’re actually in agreement with the GP. The quote: “Now I don’t want you to worry, class, these tests will have no effect on your grades. They merely determine your future social status and success, if any.” — Mrs. Krabappel As you pointed out, Bart admits to cheating and gets sent back to his ordinary class. The GP’s point is that these tests merely determine who will be admitted to the “gifted and talented” classes, not who will succeed in them, and the Simpson’s episode bears that out. If there were a more accurate way of predicting success in gifted classes then we should use that instead of standardized test scores.

allturtles 5y ago
I don't want to get into a whole thing over this Simpsons episode, which I think everyone agrees is moot, but he fails in the new class because he cheated and used someone else's score, not because the scores (absent cheating) aren't predictive of success.

hn_throwaway_99 5y ago

Yikes, talk about missing the forest for the trees. I'm not using the Simpsons episode as "evidence", I just thought Mrs. Krabapple's statement of "Now I don’t want you to worry, class, these tests will have no effect on your grades. They merely determine your future social status and success, if any." was such a hilarious statement, and while of course it is hyperbolic, does have evidence to support the gist, that leading kids into different "tracts" at such an early age can have an outsized effect on their life, and that effect can be unwarranted based on what can be small differences in the "cutoff" to get into gifted programs.

belorn 5y ago
Schools should design the education to the needs of the individual. If a "tract" would benefit everyone then the education program should be changed for everyone. The Simpsons episode however is more designed towards the social status aspect. If being in a gifted program grants status, without any connection to the education conducted within the program, all we are simply describing is moving kids into segregated groups of those that has money and power and those that doesn't. The actually program itself has no meaning and could as easily be renamed as the rich people club (private schools?) with the same education material and program as everyone else. When it comes to people on the lower end of the IQ spectrum, we do see that a single test would not work to determine which tract a student should follow. A failing test could be a sign of low IQ where the student need to be at a school for children with special needs, or it could just be a temporary setback where the regular program is perfectly suitable. In border cases there would basically be an extended period of testing and trial attempts to see which one would be best suited to the individual. In theory the same process should be on the higher end of the IQ spectrum. If you got a border case where a individual is just slightly above or below the qualifications for a gifted program then what would be best for the individual would be to extended the testing phase and see where they develop best.