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> the animals that were there mostly didn't contribute serious new ones Aren't syphilis and Lyme disease of New World origin?

by danjac 5y ago

AlotOfReading 5y ago
There's quite a lot of debate over the precise origins of syphilis. I'm only peripherally familiar with the literature, but my understanding is that recent work suggests (but not concludes) that it might have been endemic to afroeurasia rather than or as well as the Americas. Lyme disease is indeed wholly American, but it's not epidemic or even particularly mortal.
- COGlory 5y ago
  I enjoyed this paper on the origins and distribution of Treponema (the bug that causes syphilis and a few other skin diseases). https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3956094/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3956094/
  - Telemakhos 5y ago
    I'm surprised that paper got published, considering the basic spelling errors ("jaws" for "yaws") and errors of fact ("Española Island…a part of the Galápagos Islands").
    - vidarh 5y ago
      > considering the basic spelling errors ("jaws" for "yaws") Missing a single erroroneous instance of a word that won't get caught by spell check may be embarrassing, but it's hardly material. > ("Española Island…a part of the Galápagos Islands") https://www.galapagos.org/about_galapagos/about-galapagos/the-islands/espanola/ https://www.galapagos.org/about_galapagos/about-galapagos/th... What is the error here?
      - Telemakhos 5y ago
        There are several islands in the world that have had the name Española. The one that is relevant to the discussion about syphilis is now more commonly known as Hispanola, home to Haiti and the Dominican Republic. Columbus visited in 1492/3 and supposedly brought back Syphilis in 1493. The Galapagos islands are in the Pacific, and were never visited by Columbus.
        vidarh 5y ago
        Ah, yeah that make sense. I just looked at the immediate sentence, rather than question which island it referred to. I'm assuming that's the cause for the error too - just someone wanting to reference location and popping the name into Google -, though it's certainly a much more serious error than the spelling mistake.
- klyrs 5y ago
  Lyme disease is not wholly American, though its incidence may be in more recent times. "Ötzi the iceman" had it 5kya: https://www.utoronto.ca/news/u-t-researchers-find-ancient-iceman-s-infection-helps-lyme-disease-bone-loss-discovery https://www.utoronto.ca/news/u-t-researchers-find-ancient-ic... An ancestor to that bacteria was found in a tick that lived 15Mya: https://www.livescience.com/46007-lyme-disease-ancient-amber-tick.html https://www.livescience.com/46007-lyme-disease-ancient-amber...
- foxhop 5y ago
  Lyme is a scary to go through, I've had it twice now, here is my latest encounter: https://youtu.be/xbPr7DHwSIw https://youtu.be/xbPr7DHwSIw
- selimthegrim 5y ago
  Yaws is found in Africa and was there before 1492. But syphilis was in the Americas before 1492 as well..
bregma 5y ago
There is evidence that syphillis came from the Americas. There is evidence it was introduced to the Americas by Europeans. One problem is that it's hard to distinguish teritiary syphillis from tuberculosis or leprosy on bones. As for Borreliosis, there are many variants of it endemic to Europe and spread by ticks. No evidence that it came from the Americas. Neither of those spirochetes are zoonotic.
- vanattab 5y ago
  Why is a tic biting a human and transferring Borreliosis not considered zoonotic?
  - hoseja 5y ago
    I agree, Lyme disease definitely isn't primarily human.
  - littlestymaar 5y ago
    My understanding is that if the tick was only a vector between two humans (for instance, malaria isn't a zoonosis, because the mosquito is just transmitting the disease between humans), then it would not be a zoonosis. But in most cases with Lyme disease, the tick is actually transmitting the disease from another animal to a human, therefore it is indeed a zoonosis.[1] [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyme_disease#Transmission https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyme_disease#Transmission
  - lostlogin 5y ago
    According to everyone favourite source, Lyme disease is zoonotic. I had never heard the term until today, so take the claim with a pinch. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoonosis https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoonosis

> the animals that were there mostly didn't contribute serious new ones Aren't syphilis and Lyme disease of New World origin?

by danjac 5y ago

> the animals that were there mostly didn't contribute serious new ones Aren't syphilis and Lyme disease of New World origin?

AlotOfReading 5y ago

There's quite a lot of debate over the precise origins of syphilis. I'm only peripherally familiar with the literature, but my understanding is that recent work suggests (but not concludes) that it might have been endemic to afroeurasia rather than or as well as the Americas. Lyme disease is indeed wholly American, but it's not epidemic or even particularly mortal.

COGlory 5y ago
I enjoyed this paper on the origins and distribution of Treponema (the bug that causes syphilis and a few other skin diseases). https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3956094/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3956094/
- Telemakhos 5y ago
  I'm surprised that paper got published, considering the basic spelling errors ("jaws" for "yaws") and errors of fact ("Española Island…a part of the Galápagos Islands").
  - vidarh 5y ago
    > considering the basic spelling errors ("jaws" for "yaws") Missing a single erroroneous instance of a word that won't get caught by spell check may be embarrassing, but it's hardly material. > ("Española Island…a part of the Galápagos Islands") https://www.galapagos.org/about_galapagos/about-galapagos/the-islands/espanola/ https://www.galapagos.org/about_galapagos/about-galapagos/th... What is the error here?
    - Telemakhos 5y ago
      There are several islands in the world that have had the name Española. The one that is relevant to the discussion about syphilis is now more commonly known as Hispanola, home to Haiti and the Dominican Republic. Columbus visited in 1492/3 and supposedly brought back Syphilis in 1493. The Galapagos islands are in the Pacific, and were never visited by Columbus.
      - vidarh 5y ago
        Ah, yeah that make sense. I just looked at the immediate sentence, rather than question which island it referred to. I'm assuming that's the cause for the error too - just someone wanting to reference location and popping the name into Google -, though it's certainly a much more serious error than the spelling mistake.
klyrs 5y ago
Lyme disease is not wholly American, though its incidence may be in more recent times. "Ötzi the iceman" had it 5kya: https://www.utoronto.ca/news/u-t-researchers-find-ancient-iceman-s-infection-helps-lyme-disease-bone-loss-discovery https://www.utoronto.ca/news/u-t-researchers-find-ancient-ic... An ancestor to that bacteria was found in a tick that lived 15Mya: https://www.livescience.com/46007-lyme-disease-ancient-amber-tick.html https://www.livescience.com/46007-lyme-disease-ancient-amber...
foxhop 5y ago
Lyme is a scary to go through, I've had it twice now, here is my latest encounter: https://youtu.be/xbPr7DHwSIw https://youtu.be/xbPr7DHwSIw
selimthegrim 5y ago
Yaws is found in Africa and was there before 1492. But syphilis was in the Americas before 1492 as well..

bregma 5y ago

There is evidence that syphillis came from the Americas. There is evidence it was introduced to the Americas by Europeans. One problem is that it's hard to distinguish teritiary syphillis from tuberculosis or leprosy on bones. As for Borreliosis, there are many variants of it endemic to Europe and spread by ticks. No evidence that it came from the Americas. Neither of those spirochetes are zoonotic.

vanattab 5y ago
Why is a tic biting a human and transferring Borreliosis not considered zoonotic?
- hoseja 5y ago
  I agree, Lyme disease definitely isn't primarily human.
- littlestymaar 5y ago
  My understanding is that if the tick was only a vector between two humans (for instance, malaria isn't a zoonosis, because the mosquito is just transmitting the disease between humans), then it would not be a zoonosis. But in most cases with Lyme disease, the tick is actually transmitting the disease from another animal to a human, therefore it is indeed a zoonosis.[1] [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyme_disease#Transmission https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyme_disease#Transmission
- lostlogin 5y ago
  According to everyone favourite source, Lyme disease is zoonotic. I had never heard the term until today, so take the claim with a pinch. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoonosis https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoonosis