4 ms·

Just another anecdote here, but I'll go ahead and share. I was essentially raised by a single working mother who spent 12 years getting herself a Master's Degr

by lbayes 5y ago

Just another anecdote here, but I'll go ahead and share. I was essentially raised by a single working mother who spent 12 years getting herself a Master's Degree while working full time and raising a very independent and even more obstinate little boy. We weren't the poorest people I knew, but clothes came from Goodwill and we did not have enough money to put oil in our home's heater during some winters. By 7th grade, I had been managing my own meals, hygiene, laundry and getting to and from school for a few years. I was also running as fast as I could directly to jail or worse. I had become feral. I was extremely lucky that my mother forced me to try out for a magnet program, which got me into a different social group and even though I continued to find some trouble, I did not continue to find ever worse kinds of trouble. Of course, I could be wrong, but I believe that art program and the teachers, students and counselors there saved my life. It would be a real shame if we allowed people to dismantle those programs, as I certainly am not the only economically disadvantaged person who found themselves at least somewhat stimulated and essentially saved by the experience.

deleted 5y ago
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kongolongo 5y ago
>which got me into a different social group and even though I continued to find some trouble, I did not continue to find ever worse kinds of trouble I think that was the most impactful part. I'm curious what you think though. If you were to dissect what makes actually makes a gifted and talented program different or better is it actually anything to do with the selection part of it or is it a result of being surrounded with peers from better socioeconomic backgrounds who are more likely to make it through the selection in the first place? Take another step back and also consider if you had a twin with virtually the same upbringing as you up until your mom forced you to try out for the magnet program, would they benefit more or less from the g&t school existing or if that funding had been distributed to their under-funded schools? Would more kids on average benefit from the existence of these programs than not? Obviously there are other confounding factors here but I'll enter this in as a counter-anecdote, I went to a small suburban school district in the north east that had a single, well-funded public high school, our graduation rates, testing outcomes, and college acceptance rates were comparable with g&t schools in other states.
- lbayes 5y ago
  It's an interesting set of questions and as you point out, it's hard for me to narrow down to a single thing. I'm certain my social circle saved me, but my closest friends in high school were mostly from similar, or less fortunate financial circumstances. For me, I don't think it was the curriculum or the socioeconomic background of the kids so much as the little sliver of hope it gave me/us. It was the remote possibility that I just might be able to build a life that did not look like the adult lives I could see. A life that wouldn't be a decades long, living nightmare of hypocrisy, low-wage slavery, overwhelming debt and silent desperation, which is what I could see in most adults I had ever met, even (maybe especially?) the "wealthy" ones. I'm not sure regular public schools generally offer that kind of possibility or outlet to basically hopeless, misguided (but creative) kids like I was. My previous schools only offered extra discipline in the form of regular beatings [1] which mainly just triggered and reinforced my lifelong distrust of authority figures. [1]: I (wrongly) assumed corporal punishment had long ago been outlawed or at least effectively banned in Florida's public schools decades ago, but alas our government officials will never permit anyone to besmirch our earned reputation as an ignorant backwater. Corporal punishment is apparently still permitted to this day: https://www.the74million.org/article/kids-keep-getting-hit-at-school-even-where-corporal-punishment-is-banned/ https://www.the74million.org/article/kids-keep-getting-hit-a...
silicon2401 5y ago
I also grew up poor and was able to completely change my life outcomes thanks to help from gifted programs. The cruelty of people pushing for equality of outcomes is that we're all afloat in the ocean and they don't care how many people drown, just making sure nobody has a lifeboat if there aren't enough for everybody. They don't love the poor, they hate the rich. It's a race to the bottom
- stop_asian_hate 5y ago
  [flagged]
- AnimalMuppet 5y ago
  The new privilege is having an intact, mostly-functional family. (Note well: not rich, functional.) That's the lifeboat that will prevent equality of outcomes. Pity that so few have it.
  - 908B64B197 5y ago
    Exactly. Gifted programs were providing that, via extra supervision and easier classes to manage (everyone wants to be there). These activists are now robbing these kids of their only alternative at having a functioning environment for 8 hours a day.
  - stop_asian_hate 5y ago
    No it isn't. Twin studies have shown that family environment doesn't have much effect on IQ. The problem is the scientific reality of race differences in cognitive functioning, largely due to natural selection, founder effects etc. Somehow this is a problem but race differences in athletic ability are considered perfectly fine, and nobody protests against too many black people in basketball.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - dennis_jeeves 5y ago
    >The new privilege is having an intact, mostly-functional family. Rarely have I see as profound but very simple statement as this. I'm not being sarcastic in case you are wondering.
deleted 5y ago
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by lbayes 5y ago

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

kongolongo 5y ago

>which got me into a different social group and even though I continued to find some trouble, I did not continue to find ever worse kinds of trouble I think that was the most impactful part. I'm curious what you think though. If you were to dissect what makes actually makes a gifted and talented program different or better is it actually anything to do with the selection part of it or is it a result of being surrounded with peers from better socioeconomic backgrounds who are more likely to make it through the selection in the first place? Take another step back and also consider if you had a twin with virtually the same upbringing as you up until your mom forced you to try out for the magnet program, would they benefit more or less from the g&t school existing or if that funding had been distributed to their under-funded schools? Would more kids on average benefit from the existence of these programs than not? Obviously there are other confounding factors here but I'll enter this in as a counter-anecdote, I went to a small suburban school district in the north east that had a single, well-funded public high school, our graduation rates, testing outcomes, and college acceptance rates were comparable with g&t schools in other states.

lbayes 5y ago
It's an interesting set of questions and as you point out, it's hard for me to narrow down to a single thing. I'm certain my social circle saved me, but my closest friends in high school were mostly from similar, or less fortunate financial circumstances. For me, I don't think it was the curriculum or the socioeconomic background of the kids so much as the little sliver of hope it gave me/us. It was the remote possibility that I just might be able to build a life that did not look like the adult lives I could see. A life that wouldn't be a decades long, living nightmare of hypocrisy, low-wage slavery, overwhelming debt and silent desperation, which is what I could see in most adults I had ever met, even (maybe especially?) the "wealthy" ones. I'm not sure regular public schools generally offer that kind of possibility or outlet to basically hopeless, misguided (but creative) kids like I was. My previous schools only offered extra discipline in the form of regular beatings [1] which mainly just triggered and reinforced my lifelong distrust of authority figures. [1]: I (wrongly) assumed corporal punishment had long ago been outlawed or at least effectively banned in Florida's public schools decades ago, but alas our government officials will never permit anyone to besmirch our earned reputation as an ignorant backwater. Corporal punishment is apparently still permitted to this day: https://www.the74million.org/article/kids-keep-getting-hit-at-school-even-where-corporal-punishment-is-banned/ https://www.the74million.org/article/kids-keep-getting-hit-a...

silicon2401 5y ago

I also grew up poor and was able to completely change my life outcomes thanks to help from gifted programs. The cruelty of people pushing for equality of outcomes is that we're all afloat in the ocean and they don't care how many people drown, just making sure nobody has a lifeboat if there aren't enough for everybody. They don't love the poor, they hate the rich. It's a race to the bottom

stop_asian_hate 5y ago
[flagged]
AnimalMuppet 5y ago
The new privilege is having an intact, mostly-functional family. (Note well: not rich, functional.) That's the lifeboat that will prevent equality of outcomes. Pity that so few have it.
- 908B64B197 5y ago
  Exactly. Gifted programs were providing that, via extra supervision and easier classes to manage (everyone wants to be there). These activists are now robbing these kids of their only alternative at having a functioning environment for 8 hours a day.
- stop_asian_hate 5y ago
  No it isn't. Twin studies have shown that family environment doesn't have much effect on IQ. The problem is the scientific reality of race differences in cognitive functioning, largely due to natural selection, founder effects etc. Somehow this is a problem but race differences in athletic ability are considered perfectly fine, and nobody protests against too many black people in basketball.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- dennis_jeeves 5y ago
  >The new privilege is having an intact, mostly-functional family. Rarely have I see as profound but very simple statement as this. I'm not being sarcastic in case you are wondering.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]