6 ms·

There are plenty of valid claims that many other civilizations contacted America: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-Columbian_trans-oceanic_contact_theories htt

There are plenty of valid claims that many other civilizations contacted America: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-Columbian_trans-oceanic_contact_theories https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-Columbian_trans-oceanic_co... But it is meaningless since they did not write about it nor they stablished commerce. The fact is that before 1492, most civilizations in Africa/Asia/Europe did not know that America existed and that other humans lived there. After 1492, that changed forever.

nashashmi 5y ago
This brings up a good point about what does discover mean. People lived in north America but they did not write about it to Europeans so they had to be discovered. Why does my understanding of history seem to revolve around what Europeans did and did not do/know?
- warkdarrior 5y ago
  For better or for worse, different civilizations took different approaches to keeping written records. The Chinese, many European people, the Arabs, the Persians, the Indians, the Mayans, the Aztecs, many African people all had detailed written records. So we tend to tell history from their point of view, since this is the info we have. Do we have written info from the Native Americans who met the Vikings or from the Caribbean peoples about Columbus? Not that I know of. We have the Vikings view of things and Columbus' view, so we tend to rely on them.
soylentnewsorg 5y ago
I think there's also a point everyone who talks about other "discoveries" of America purposely ignores. This is about the discovery of it not for Europe the continent. This is about its discovery for what was the civilized nations in Europe. So if we look at Iceland - a place that's essentially a standalone island already half way to America - where a bunch of vikings lived who at the time weren't hanging out with people from places like Spain or Italy or France - it's an apples to oranges comparison.
- runarberg 5y ago
  This might be a simplistic view of history. First Iceland is only half way to North America if you consider Greenland (which is kind of weird since both Iceland and Greenland are islands between the two continents). The distance between Iceland and Labrador is twice as long as the distance between Iceland and Norway. And the double distance is on top of much much rougher seas of the Labrador sea then the North Atlantic. So for small sailboats Europe is definitely close while North America isn’t. Second, people traveled a lot both to Iceland and from Iceland in the centuries after the voyages mentioned in Grænlendinga Saga. Ships went to Iceland to trait, or fish and people went from Iceland to continental Europe for pilgrimage, trade, etc. These people definitely talked to each other and told each other stories of their ancestors. I wouldn’t be surprised if some Portuguese fishermen were told Grænlendinga Saga while wintering in Iceland sometime in the 14th century after their trip home was delayed for some reason. Or that a pilgrim from Iceland told a fellow Spanish Christion in broken latin about Leifur Eiríksson on their way to Rome. Third. Flateyarbók (which contains written stories about the norse settlements in North America) was written down in the mid 13th century. The Icelandic sagas were coveted by Scandinavian royalty and I bet royalty in both Norway and Denmark knew about it’s existence, and might even have heard Grænlendinga Saga recited. Now it probably wasn’t common knowledge that there were lands west of the Atlantic which people once tried to settle, but it probably wasn’t unknown either. It is not hard to imagine an alternative scenario where by some freak luck Christopher Columbus happens to talk to a person who’s great grandfather told a story about an Icelander they walked part of the way to Rome with. “Curious folks those Icelanders”, they say, “in the old times they used to sail all around the world. Even going West of Greenland”. “Greenland? You mean the icy land way north in the Atlantic where they get those Walrus husks?” Columbus replies. “Yes, there! Apparently there are some much more favorable lands south west of there. I wonder how much further south it reaches, maybe as far south as Africa?” Or maybe a scenario where a common crewman on Columbus’ voyage knew about these stories from a Basque fisherman who in turn heard them while on a fishing trip to Iceland. “This isn’t Japan”, he claims. “An old friend of mine heard stories about lands as far west as this—albeit further north as well. Maybe these islands are of the same island chain which lie between Europe and Asia”. This crewman is promptly laughed at. “Off course this is Japan, our captain says so.” They say, and the crewman never mentions it again.
cschmidt 5y ago
A monk in 14th-century Italy wrote about the Americas https://www.economist.com/the-americas/2021/09/25/a-monk-in-14th-century-italy-wrote-about-the-americas There was an interesting recent Economist story about that. There is a 14th century Italian monk that did write about Newfoundland based on the oral testimony of “sailors who frequent the seas of Denmark and Norway”. It is possible Columbus was aware of this.
- CRConrad 5y ago
  Discussed here a few weeks ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28648793 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28648793
- chestertn 5y ago
  Colombus was trying to find India and he explored the area trying to find proof that he indeed found India. Furthermore, Colombus brought an interpreter with him, Luis de Torres: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luis_de_Torres https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luis_de_Torres "Their task was to explore the country, contact its ruler, and gather information about the Asian emperor described by Marco Polo as the "Great Khan". " There is a lot of effort put today to downplay the importance of what happened. I understand that it makes sense politically. But the fact remains that what happened in 1492, for good or bad, changed the world forever.
- bebop 5y ago
  There is a possibility that this was known much earlier than the 14th century. St. Brendan may have been speaking about the americas as early as 500 AD. Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brendan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brendan Interesting read: https://www.amazon.com/Brendan-Voyage-Sailing-America-Exploration/dp/0375755241 https://www.amazon.com/Brendan-Voyage-Sailing-America-Explor...
Retric 5y ago
It’s not commerce but native peoples where apparently regularly crossing the barring straight without realizing anything unusual was going on. If this had gone on long enough we might have turned into a ring species. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_species https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_species
waserwill 5y ago
> But it is meaningless since they did not write about it not they stablished commerce Depends on what you find meaningful! There was almost certainly exchange of goods between Polynesians and South Americans. The presence of early sweet potato agriculture in Polynesia and genetic admixture in both regions points to non-trivial contact. There are even parallels in terms of folk-tales [0]! (Though these are likely older events, more to do with ancient dispersal). There are also possibly earlier relationships across the Pacific, but these would have been ancient and interesting largely from historical curiousity [1]. [0]https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-319-39445-9_5 https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-319-39445-9_... [1] https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.aav2621 https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.aav2621
- chestertn 5y ago
  I have talked about this a bit more in another comment below: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28936345 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28936345 There are also possible contacts between ancient peoples in Europe and the Americas: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-Columbian_trans-oceanic_contact_theories#Claims_of_travel_in_Roman_times https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-Columbian_trans-oceanic_co... But as I mention, the impact of 1492 eclipses it all (that is why is called Pre-Columbian!)
- mtoohig 5y ago
  I live in Vanuatu and is it very far to the west side of the Pacific yet the almost southern most island of Vanuatu, Aneityum, has stories of what they called the "Yellow People" that were on the island before they, Melanesians, arrived from northern islands. These people on the island were excellent stone carvers and could make stone walls which the current locals admit they never learned from the "yellow people". Old engravings exist still of these original people that to me sound like those may have come from the east, South America. I don't have photos though, this is a story I just heard recently from family members of that island.
  - chana_masala 5y ago
    I don't think I've come across anyone on HN from Vanuatu. If you're open to answering, I wonder if you work in tech? What's the tech industry like there?
avgcorrection 5y ago
> But it is meaningless since they did not write about it nor they stablished commerce. The first African to climb Mt. Everest, you say? Well he didn’t help build a network of base camps so I’m just going to say that it’s meaningless.
- avgcorrection 5y ago
  Come to think of it: none of Buddha’s followers even wrote about him or Buddhism itself until several centuries after his death. Meaningless.
  - chestertn 5y ago
    Yes, but they continued the Buddhism tradition (orally). The Vikings did not continue commercing and tell other people... hey! there are humans in this place! its a new continent!
    - MichaelMcG 5y ago
      "Meh--same climate, different continent. We'll stick to raiding the shorter commute South, they have stuff worth taking."
- chestertn 5y ago
  Yes. Meaningless. 1492? Very meaningful. One of the most important feats if not the most important of what we used to call the Age of Exploration: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_Discovery https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_Discovery This led to global trade that changed the face of the earth. It opened philosophical debates about human rights, the legality of wars, etc., which are still important today. https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/school-salamanca/#IusGentIusAdBellEnslIndiAfriOthe https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/school-salamanca/#IusGent... These debates led to the prohibition of American Indian slavery in... 1542! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Laws https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Laws The first recorded christian marriage in current United States was an interracial union in 1565! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_colonial_Spanish_America https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_colonial_Spanish_Am... I could go on an on.
singularity2001 5y ago
I find it highly likely that crucial bronze age inventions like smelting, Eridu/Elamite 'pyramids' and writing were introduced to America in one way trips between 4000 and 0BC, however until we find artifacts or mummy DNA it's pure speculation.
- Ericson2314 5y ago
  I don't doubt there were "rafting" events, like that which brought over the new world monkeys, but I don't think isolated individuals can transmit culture like that. "Connecticut Yankee" type stories underestimate how diffuse culture is, and overestimate the prevelence and prowess of "polymaths" in the weakest sense.
  - singularity2001 5y ago
    Rafting is not the term I'd use for post Ubaid sailing and rowing explorations. Look at the rock art of that time, especially in egypt and slightly later scandinavia. If you believe the essence of Gilgamesh, some of these expeditions to far countries might have even made it back (though unlikely from America).
- Laremere 5y ago
  Civilizations around the world definitely acquired similar technology with suspicious timing, but the common factor doesn't need to be humans. One theory I'm fond of is river deltas. The major ones all formed around 7,000 years ago (see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A47ythEcz74 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A47ythEcz74) as a geological result of the end of the ice age. After humanity spread to the Americas during the ice age, the end of the ice age seems to have created the conditions necessary for agriculture to flourish. Once you have agriculture you get cities, writing to track harvest numbers, pyramids from laborers working in the off season, and metalworking from craftspeople .
  - singularity2001 5y ago
    Suspicious timing is a good term. As far as I know the 4000 years of development which preceded the Eurasian bronze age are absent in america (tokens, cold hammering, accounting, step by step increases in architectural complexity), even though agriculture must have been part of a much earlier package or human condition as you said. Wooden idols and totems go back to ice age times, I give you that.
hapticmonkey 5y ago
That's like saying The Apollo moon missions were meaningless because they failed to set up commercial hub on the moon.
- hnbad 5y ago
  In a way they're meaningless because they were just a way to extend the "space race" to an arbitrary milestone the US could claim for itself after having lost almost everything else to the reds.
- CamperBob2 5y ago
  Sadly, while Apollo was important as a proof-of-concept exercise, it was up to future generations of spacefaring explorers to give it meaning by following through on the initial achievement. Unlike the post-Columbian European settlers, we've dropped the ball. By the time we get back to the Moon, my guess is that over half our population will believe that the Apollo missions never happened at all. There can't be much of a leap from "Bush blew up the WTC" and "Trump won the election" to "The moon landings were faked in Hollywood."
- WalterBright 5y ago
  I hate to say it, but in a sense, they were meaningless because there was no followup. We haven't had a machine that could even get us back there for 50 years now.
  - maldeh 5y ago
    One could argue that we are doing the followup even to this day (with the China CLEP programme, India’s Chandrayaan, USA’s ongoing Artemis campaign and others). The deed was done, the minimum bar was set and humanity has been as determined as ever to breach the peak it had achieved back in the sixties even as government funding waxes and wanes. Public interest has not changed in the least.
    - WalterBright 5y ago
      > Public interest has not changed in the least. Declining public interest cancelled the Apollo program. Modern rocket scientists had to dismantle the Saturn V engines to figure out how they worked.
runarberg 5y ago
> But it is meaningless since they did not write about it The story of Leifur Eiríksson lived in the oral tradition and was eventually written down in Grænlendinga Saga around 250 years later (which is still another 250 years before Columbus). I bet that possible Polynesian contact would have lived in the oral tradition in a similar manner. Though way more time passed until the stories Polynesian were written down so I would expect them to be a bit more fantastical with the added time.
makeitdouble 5y ago
> But it is meaningless __to western european cultures__ since they did not write about it __in the dominant languages__ nor they stablished commerce __with europe__ Added the implicit bits. That doesn’t take anything from your point, I just think having the perspective explicited helps grasp it better. It will also cover the discussions when ancient China will be found to have had extensive links as well, etc.
- chestertn 5y ago
  No, no. To China and the Ottoman Empire as well. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_Discovery https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_Discovery https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_world_maps#After_1492 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_world_maps#After_1492 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_international_trade https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_international_trad... It is one of the greatest feats of European civilizations. Don't take that away! Not everything is implicit bias and Eurocentrism.

nashashmi 5y ago

This brings up a good point about what does discover mean. People lived in north America but they did not write about it to Europeans so they had to be discovered. Why does my understanding of history seem to revolve around what Europeans did and did not do/know?

warkdarrior 5y ago
For better or for worse, different civilizations took different approaches to keeping written records. The Chinese, many European people, the Arabs, the Persians, the Indians, the Mayans, the Aztecs, many African people all had detailed written records. So we tend to tell history from their point of view, since this is the info we have. Do we have written info from the Native Americans who met the Vikings or from the Caribbean peoples about Columbus? Not that I know of. We have the Vikings view of things and Columbus' view, so we tend to rely on them.

soylentnewsorg 5y ago

I think there's also a point everyone who talks about other "discoveries" of America purposely ignores. This is about the discovery of it not for Europe the continent. This is about its discovery for what was the civilized nations in Europe. So if we look at Iceland - a place that's essentially a standalone island already half way to America - where a bunch of vikings lived who at the time weren't hanging out with people from places like Spain or Italy or France - it's an apples to oranges comparison.

runarberg 5y ago
This might be a simplistic view of history. First Iceland is only half way to North America if you consider Greenland (which is kind of weird since both Iceland and Greenland are islands between the two continents). The distance between Iceland and Labrador is twice as long as the distance between Iceland and Norway. And the double distance is on top of much much rougher seas of the Labrador sea then the North Atlantic. So for small sailboats Europe is definitely close while North America isn’t. Second, people traveled a lot both to Iceland and from Iceland in the centuries after the voyages mentioned in Grænlendinga Saga. Ships went to Iceland to trait, or fish and people went from Iceland to continental Europe for pilgrimage, trade, etc. These people definitely talked to each other and told each other stories of their ancestors. I wouldn’t be surprised if some Portuguese fishermen were told Grænlendinga Saga while wintering in Iceland sometime in the 14th century after their trip home was delayed for some reason. Or that a pilgrim from Iceland told a fellow Spanish Christion in broken latin about Leifur Eiríksson on their way to Rome. Third. Flateyarbók (which contains written stories about the norse settlements in North America) was written down in the mid 13th century. The Icelandic sagas were coveted by Scandinavian royalty and I bet royalty in both Norway and Denmark knew about it’s existence, and might even have heard Grænlendinga Saga recited. Now it probably wasn’t common knowledge that there were lands west of the Atlantic which people once tried to settle, but it probably wasn’t unknown either. It is not hard to imagine an alternative scenario where by some freak luck Christopher Columbus happens to talk to a person who’s great grandfather told a story about an Icelander they walked part of the way to Rome with. “Curious folks those Icelanders”, they say, “in the old times they used to sail all around the world. Even going West of Greenland”. “Greenland? You mean the icy land way north in the Atlantic where they get those Walrus husks?” Columbus replies. “Yes, there! Apparently there are some much more favorable lands south west of there. I wonder how much further south it reaches, maybe as far south as Africa?” Or maybe a scenario where a common crewman on Columbus’ voyage knew about these stories from a Basque fisherman who in turn heard them while on a fishing trip to Iceland. “This isn’t Japan”, he claims. “An old friend of mine heard stories about lands as far west as this—albeit further north as well. Maybe these islands are of the same island chain which lie between Europe and Asia”. This crewman is promptly laughed at. “Off course this is Japan, our captain says so.” They say, and the crewman never mentions it again.

cschmidt 5y ago

A monk in 14th-century Italy wrote about the Americas https://www.economist.com/the-americas/2021/09/25/a-monk-in-14th-century-italy-wrote-about-the-americas There was an interesting recent Economist story about that. There is a 14th century Italian monk that did write about Newfoundland based on the oral testimony of “sailors who frequent the seas of Denmark and Norway”. It is possible Columbus was aware of this.

CRConrad 5y ago
Discussed here a few weeks ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28648793 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28648793
chestertn 5y ago
Colombus was trying to find India and he explored the area trying to find proof that he indeed found India. Furthermore, Colombus brought an interpreter with him, Luis de Torres: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luis_de_Torres https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luis_de_Torres "Their task was to explore the country, contact its ruler, and gather information about the Asian emperor described by Marco Polo as the "Great Khan". " There is a lot of effort put today to downplay the importance of what happened. I understand that it makes sense politically. But the fact remains that what happened in 1492, for good or bad, changed the world forever.
bebop 5y ago
There is a possibility that this was known much earlier than the 14th century. St. Brendan may have been speaking about the americas as early as 500 AD. Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brendan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brendan Interesting read: https://www.amazon.com/Brendan-Voyage-Sailing-America-Exploration/dp/0375755241 https://www.amazon.com/Brendan-Voyage-Sailing-America-Explor...

Retric 5y ago

It’s not commerce but native peoples where apparently regularly crossing the barring straight without realizing anything unusual was going on. If this had gone on long enough we might have turned into a ring species. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_species https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_species

waserwill 5y ago

> But it is meaningless since they did not write about it not they stablished commerce Depends on what you find meaningful! There was almost certainly exchange of goods between Polynesians and South Americans. The presence of early sweet potato agriculture in Polynesia and genetic admixture in both regions points to non-trivial contact. There are even parallels in terms of folk-tales [0]! (Though these are likely older events, more to do with ancient dispersal). There are also possibly earlier relationships across the Pacific, but these would have been ancient and interesting largely from historical curiousity [1]. [0]https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-319-39445-9_5 https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-319-39445-9_... [1] https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.aav2621 https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.aav2621

chestertn 5y ago
I have talked about this a bit more in another comment below: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28936345 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28936345 There are also possible contacts between ancient peoples in Europe and the Americas: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-Columbian_trans-oceanic_contact_theories#Claims_of_travel_in_Roman_times https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-Columbian_trans-oceanic_co... But as I mention, the impact of 1492 eclipses it all (that is why is called Pre-Columbian!)
mtoohig 5y ago
I live in Vanuatu and is it very far to the west side of the Pacific yet the almost southern most island of Vanuatu, Aneityum, has stories of what they called the "Yellow People" that were on the island before they, Melanesians, arrived from northern islands. These people on the island were excellent stone carvers and could make stone walls which the current locals admit they never learned from the "yellow people". Old engravings exist still of these original people that to me sound like those may have come from the east, South America. I don't have photos though, this is a story I just heard recently from family members of that island.
- chana_masala 5y ago
  I don't think I've come across anyone on HN from Vanuatu. If you're open to answering, I wonder if you work in tech? What's the tech industry like there?

avgcorrection 5y ago

> But it is meaningless since they did not write about it nor they stablished commerce. The first African to climb Mt. Everest, you say? Well he didn’t help build a network of base camps so I’m just going to say that it’s meaningless.

avgcorrection 5y ago
Come to think of it: none of Buddha’s followers even wrote about him or Buddhism itself until several centuries after his death. Meaningless.
- chestertn 5y ago
  Yes, but they continued the Buddhism tradition (orally). The Vikings did not continue commercing and tell other people... hey! there are humans in this place! its a new continent!
  - MichaelMcG 5y ago
    "Meh--same climate, different continent. We'll stick to raiding the shorter commute South, they have stuff worth taking."
chestertn 5y ago
Yes. Meaningless. 1492? Very meaningful. One of the most important feats if not the most important of what we used to call the Age of Exploration: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_Discovery https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_Discovery This led to global trade that changed the face of the earth. It opened philosophical debates about human rights, the legality of wars, etc., which are still important today. https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/school-salamanca/#IusGentIusAdBellEnslIndiAfriOthe https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/school-salamanca/#IusGent... These debates led to the prohibition of American Indian slavery in... 1542! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Laws https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Laws The first recorded christian marriage in current United States was an interracial union in 1565! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_colonial_Spanish_America https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_colonial_Spanish_Am... I could go on an on.

singularity2001 5y ago

I find it highly likely that crucial bronze age inventions like smelting, Eridu/Elamite 'pyramids' and writing were introduced to America in one way trips between 4000 and 0BC, however until we find artifacts or mummy DNA it's pure speculation.

Ericson2314 5y ago
I don't doubt there were "rafting" events, like that which brought over the new world monkeys, but I don't think isolated individuals can transmit culture like that. "Connecticut Yankee" type stories underestimate how diffuse culture is, and overestimate the prevelence and prowess of "polymaths" in the weakest sense.
- singularity2001 5y ago
  Rafting is not the term I'd use for post Ubaid sailing and rowing explorations. Look at the rock art of that time, especially in egypt and slightly later scandinavia. If you believe the essence of Gilgamesh, some of these expeditions to far countries might have even made it back (though unlikely from America).
Laremere 5y ago
Civilizations around the world definitely acquired similar technology with suspicious timing, but the common factor doesn't need to be humans. One theory I'm fond of is river deltas. The major ones all formed around 7,000 years ago (see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A47ythEcz74 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A47ythEcz74) as a geological result of the end of the ice age. After humanity spread to the Americas during the ice age, the end of the ice age seems to have created the conditions necessary for agriculture to flourish. Once you have agriculture you get cities, writing to track harvest numbers, pyramids from laborers working in the off season, and metalworking from craftspeople .
- singularity2001 5y ago
  Suspicious timing is a good term. As far as I know the 4000 years of development which preceded the Eurasian bronze age are absent in america (tokens, cold hammering, accounting, step by step increases in architectural complexity), even though agriculture must have been part of a much earlier package or human condition as you said. Wooden idols and totems go back to ice age times, I give you that.

hapticmonkey 5y ago

That's like saying The Apollo moon missions were meaningless because they failed to set up commercial hub on the moon.

hnbad 5y ago
In a way they're meaningless because they were just a way to extend the "space race" to an arbitrary milestone the US could claim for itself after having lost almost everything else to the reds.
CamperBob2 5y ago
Sadly, while Apollo was important as a proof-of-concept exercise, it was up to future generations of spacefaring explorers to give it meaning by following through on the initial achievement. Unlike the post-Columbian European settlers, we've dropped the ball. By the time we get back to the Moon, my guess is that over half our population will believe that the Apollo missions never happened at all. There can't be much of a leap from "Bush blew up the WTC" and "Trump won the election" to "The moon landings were faked in Hollywood."
WalterBright 5y ago
I hate to say it, but in a sense, they were meaningless because there was no followup. We haven't had a machine that could even get us back there for 50 years now.
- maldeh 5y ago
  One could argue that we are doing the followup even to this day (with the China CLEP programme, India’s Chandrayaan, USA’s ongoing Artemis campaign and others). The deed was done, the minimum bar was set and humanity has been as determined as ever to breach the peak it had achieved back in the sixties even as government funding waxes and wanes. Public interest has not changed in the least.
  - WalterBright 5y ago
    > Public interest has not changed in the least. Declining public interest cancelled the Apollo program. Modern rocket scientists had to dismantle the Saturn V engines to figure out how they worked.

runarberg 5y ago

> But it is meaningless since they did not write about it The story of Leifur Eiríksson lived in the oral tradition and was eventually written down in Grænlendinga Saga around 250 years later (which is still another 250 years before Columbus). I bet that possible Polynesian contact would have lived in the oral tradition in a similar manner. Though way more time passed until the stories Polynesian were written down so I would expect them to be a bit more fantastical with the added time.

makeitdouble 5y ago

> But it is meaningless __to western european cultures__ since they did not write about it __in the dominant languages__ nor they stablished commerce __with europe__ Added the implicit bits. That doesn’t take anything from your point, I just think having the perspective explicited helps grasp it better. It will also cover the discussions when ancient China will be found to have had extensive links as well, etc.

chestertn 5y ago
No, no. To China and the Ottoman Empire as well. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_Discovery https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_Discovery https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_world_maps#After_1492 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_world_maps#After_1492 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_international_trade https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_international_trad... It is one of the greatest feats of European civilizations. Don't take that away! Not everything is implicit bias and Eurocentrism.