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I sometime wonder if we should go one step further and help getting as many Starlink dishes as possible into China/Russia/Iran/Cuba/NK (the worse offenders in t

I sometime wonder if we should go one step further and help getting as many Starlink dishes as possible into China/Russia/Iran/Cuba/NK (the worse offenders in term of censorship and human rights violation) to finally give their population access to real, free information instead of whatever heavily censored network the local regime allows.

55873445216111 5y ago
China could always shoot down some satellites if Starlink allowed access in China without approval. Yes, there are 1000's of Starlink satellites, but I doubt SpaceX wants to get into this kind of a fight.
- bob1029 5y ago
  In my estimation, this is an asymmetric battle that China would not be able to win. How many satellites can china intercept per launch? How many satellites can SpaceX (currently) put up per launch?
  - ygjb 5y ago
    Yeah, it's a battle that China may not be able to win, but the United States government continuing to permit SpaceX to deploy satellites that are used to circumvent Chinese policy would be a clear act of aggression, especially if China had taken action to assert control over it's domestic communications. I mean, it's entirely possible that some elements of the US government might prefer that, but generally speaking, I don't think that's a winning strategy for SpaceX. I think that even the most ardent Musk fans should anticipate how quickly tolerance for Musk's cavalier attitude dries up once missiles start flying.
  - retzkek 5y ago
    > How many satellites can SpaceX (currently) put up per launch? Probably rhetorical, but I'll be that guy: 50-60 on Falcon 9, up to 400 planned on Starship.
  - BatFastard 5y ago
    Yes, but one that orbit is full of debris, it becomes useless. Effectively disabling all satellites in that orbit over time
    - mleonhard 5y ago
      Starlink satellites use low orbits. Any debris they create will quickly de-orbit.
frashelaw 5y ago
> China/Russia/Iran/Cuba/NK Wow, you got all the state department's most wanted "bad governments" list! Be sure to keep reading NYT and MSNBC to sell you the next reason we need to bomb and starve millions of innocent people across the globe! America #1!
mleonhard 5y ago
People in China/Russia/Iran can use proxy services to bypass censorship. Such services are much cheaper than Starlink connections and far easier to set up and maintain. Starlink satellites route through ground stations which are subject to local controls [0]. Communication between satellites and the earth are governed by international treaties [1]. Every country controls radio spectrum use in their borders [2]. Starlink must obtain spectrum licenses and comply with local laws. If Starlink were to route traffic to ground stations outside of the country to evade local controls, the country would simply revoke their spectrum license. If Starlink decided to operate without a license, the US government would be forced to either stop them or break numerous international treaties. I doubt that helping people circumvent censorship will have long-term positive impact. Censorship is a symptom of bad government, not a cause. For example, both the United States and Israel both have low censorship. Yet, according to [3, 4, 5 + 6], the United States and Israel would be included in a list of "the worst offenders in terms of censorship and human rights violations". Also, UK and Singapore have strong censorship [7, 8] and perform few human rights violations nowadays. [0] https://hackaday.com/2020/02/20/how-does-starlink-work-anyway/ https://hackaday.com/2020/02/20/how-does-starlink-work-anywa... [1] https://oxfordre.com/planetaryscience/view/10.1093/acrefore/9780190647926.001.0001/acrefore-9780190647926-e-75 https://oxfordre.com/planetaryscience/view/10.1093/acrefore/... [2] https://www.itu.int/en/mediacentre/backgrounders/Pages/itu-r-managing-the-radio-frequency-spectrum-for-the-world.aspx https://www.itu.int/en/mediacentre/backgrounders/Pages/itu-r... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drone_strikes_in_Pakistan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drone_strikes_in_Pakistan [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_War [5] https://www.btselem.org/ https://www.btselem.org/ [6] https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/u-s-vetoes-of-un-security-council-resolutions-critical-to-israel https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/u-s-vetoes-of-un-securi... [7] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_in_the_United_Kingdom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_in_the_United_Kingd... [8] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_in_Singapore https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_in_Singapore

55873445216111 5y ago

China could always shoot down some satellites if Starlink allowed access in China without approval. Yes, there are 1000's of Starlink satellites, but I doubt SpaceX wants to get into this kind of a fight.

bob1029 5y ago
In my estimation, this is an asymmetric battle that China would not be able to win. How many satellites can china intercept per launch? How many satellites can SpaceX (currently) put up per launch?
- ygjb 5y ago
  Yeah, it's a battle that China may not be able to win, but the United States government continuing to permit SpaceX to deploy satellites that are used to circumvent Chinese policy would be a clear act of aggression, especially if China had taken action to assert control over it's domestic communications. I mean, it's entirely possible that some elements of the US government might prefer that, but generally speaking, I don't think that's a winning strategy for SpaceX. I think that even the most ardent Musk fans should anticipate how quickly tolerance for Musk's cavalier attitude dries up once missiles start flying.
- retzkek 5y ago
  > How many satellites can SpaceX (currently) put up per launch? Probably rhetorical, but I'll be that guy: 50-60 on Falcon 9, up to 400 planned on Starship.
- BatFastard 5y ago
  Yes, but one that orbit is full of debris, it becomes useless. Effectively disabling all satellites in that orbit over time
  - mleonhard 5y ago
    Starlink satellites use low orbits. Any debris they create will quickly de-orbit.

frashelaw 5y ago

> China/Russia/Iran/Cuba/NK Wow, you got all the state department's most wanted "bad governments" list! Be sure to keep reading NYT and MSNBC to sell you the next reason we need to bomb and starve millions of innocent people across the globe! America #1!

mleonhard 5y ago

People in China/Russia/Iran can use proxy services to bypass censorship. Such services are much cheaper than Starlink connections and far easier to set up and maintain. Starlink satellites route through ground stations which are subject to local controls [0]. Communication between satellites and the earth are governed by international treaties [1]. Every country controls radio spectrum use in their borders [2]. Starlink must obtain spectrum licenses and comply with local laws. If Starlink were to route traffic to ground stations outside of the country to evade local controls, the country would simply revoke their spectrum license. If Starlink decided to operate without a license, the US government would be forced to either stop them or break numerous international treaties. I doubt that helping people circumvent censorship will have long-term positive impact. Censorship is a symptom of bad government, not a cause. For example, both the United States and Israel both have low censorship. Yet, according to [3, 4, 5 + 6], the United States and Israel would be included in a list of "the worst offenders in terms of censorship and human rights violations". Also, UK and Singapore have strong censorship [7, 8] and perform few human rights violations nowadays. [0] https://hackaday.com/2020/02/20/how-does-starlink-work-anyway/ https://hackaday.com/2020/02/20/how-does-starlink-work-anywa... [1] https://oxfordre.com/planetaryscience/view/10.1093/acrefore/9780190647926.001.0001/acrefore-9780190647926-e-75 https://oxfordre.com/planetaryscience/view/10.1093/acrefore/... [2] https://www.itu.int/en/mediacentre/backgrounders/Pages/itu-r-managing-the-radio-frequency-spectrum-for-the-world.aspx https://www.itu.int/en/mediacentre/backgrounders/Pages/itu-r... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drone_strikes_in_Pakistan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drone_strikes_in_Pakistan [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_War [5] https://www.btselem.org/ https://www.btselem.org/ [6] https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/u-s-vetoes-of-un-security-council-resolutions-critical-to-israel https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/u-s-vetoes-of-un-securi... [7] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_in_the_United_Kingdom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_in_the_United_Kingd... [8] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_in_Singapore https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_in_Singapore