6 ms·

I still would say that Columbus was the first to "discover" America, in the sense that Leif Erikson showed up, left, and didn't really make a big deal out of it

by broof 5y ago

I still would say that Columbus was the first to "discover" America, in the sense that Leif Erikson showed up, left, and didn't really make a big deal out of it. which to be fair, makes sense if you look on google earth and zoom in and follow from Iceland up to northern Canada. It just all feels more or less the same, so eventually they turned around and left.

capableweb 5y ago
Is "making noise about it" what we consider discovery now? I'd say the first person finding and visiting the place is indeed the discoverer of that place. Maybe Columbus popularised it rather.
- throwaway894345 5y ago
  If a tree falls in the forest, does it make a sound? If someone discovers something and nothing really comes of it, is it really a more significant discovery than one which changes the world profoundly, immediately, and forevermore?
- kypro 5y ago
  When I was a kid I remember seeing weird bugs in the garden and wondering if I was the first person to find that bug. I’m sure I wasn’t, but in theory I could have “discovered” loads of new species - but would it even matter if I wasn’t aware enough of my own discovery to share it? Did the Vikings even realise they were on a new continent? My understanding is that they “settled” a tiny area and may have thought it was just an island off of Greenland or something.
  - burkaman 5y ago
    Columbus also didn't realize he was on a new continent. If that's the standard, then Amerigo Vespucci discovered it, because he's generally considered to be the first to realize it was a new continent.
- broof 5y ago
  I would say yes, "making noise about it" would be a relatively important part of discovery. Did Erikson know that there was an entire continent with advanced societies completely seperated from the "old world"? Because that is what Columbus discovered. I'm making the distinction between Leif Erikson discovering a tundra-like landmass beyond Greenland that they didn't think was significant, and Columbus's actions which ended up connecting the old world to the new. Those two things are very different from each other. If I google "who discovered america" and got Leif Erikson, I think that would be more confusing than Columbus.
  - mannerheim 5y ago
    > Did Erikson know that there was an entire continent with advanced societies completely seperated from the "old world"? Did Columbus know that?
  - CRConrad 5y ago
    > Did Erikson know that there was an entire continent with advanced societies completely seperated from the "old world"? Because that is what Columbus discovered. If knowing it was separate from the Old World is what makes it a discovery, then for all we know Columbus absolutely didn't discover any such thing. He went to his grave convinced he'd found a route to India, which was very much the Old World. Conquered by Alexander and everything; stuff doesn't get much older than that.
avgcorrection 5y ago
That dude who was first to the South Pole wasn’t “really” first, either; he just showed up and, you know, left before some arbitrary time limit that I made up.
- broof 5y ago
  well yeah Erikson was first, but he didn't "discover" it in the sense that Columbus did. I would say they're categorically different. See my comment below.
  - krapp 5y ago
    Columbus never even set foot in North America. He "discovered" some islands in the Caribbean and Bahamas. The narrative of Columbus "discovering" the land that would become the United States has never been anything but propaganda[0]. [0]https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/06/15/columbus-never-set-foot-here-why-do-we-remember-him/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/06/15/columbus-n...
    - edgyquant 5y ago
      I’ve never heard anyone say the Columbus discovered North America except maybe if you include the Caribbean as part of North America.
      - krapp 5y ago
        It's an old and very popular misconception, persistently believed by most in the US.
  - avgcorrection 5y ago
    Yeah yeah, you’re just repeating yourself. Setting your own idiosyncratic/arbitrary rules.
    - edgyquant 5y ago
zardo 5y ago
By the standards of his culture, Leif Erickson's discovery of Vinland had as much publicity as any distant event. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saga_of_the_Greenlanders https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saga_of_the_Greenlanders
burkaman 5y ago
Why do you think he didn't make a big deal out of it? I feel like any event we know about from thousand-year-old sagas must have been a big deal, otherwise it wouldn't have been preserved and recorded.

by broof 5y ago

capableweb 5y ago

Is "making noise about it" what we consider discovery now? I'd say the first person finding and visiting the place is indeed the discoverer of that place. Maybe Columbus popularised it rather.

throwaway894345 5y ago
If a tree falls in the forest, does it make a sound? If someone discovers something and nothing really comes of it, is it really a more significant discovery than one which changes the world profoundly, immediately, and forevermore?
kypro 5y ago
When I was a kid I remember seeing weird bugs in the garden and wondering if I was the first person to find that bug. I’m sure I wasn’t, but in theory I could have “discovered” loads of new species - but would it even matter if I wasn’t aware enough of my own discovery to share it? Did the Vikings even realise they were on a new continent? My understanding is that they “settled” a tiny area and may have thought it was just an island off of Greenland or something.
- burkaman 5y ago
  Columbus also didn't realize he was on a new continent. If that's the standard, then Amerigo Vespucci discovered it, because he's generally considered to be the first to realize it was a new continent.
broof 5y ago
I would say yes, "making noise about it" would be a relatively important part of discovery. Did Erikson know that there was an entire continent with advanced societies completely seperated from the "old world"? Because that is what Columbus discovered. I'm making the distinction between Leif Erikson discovering a tundra-like landmass beyond Greenland that they didn't think was significant, and Columbus's actions which ended up connecting the old world to the new. Those two things are very different from each other. If I google "who discovered america" and got Leif Erikson, I think that would be more confusing than Columbus.
- mannerheim 5y ago
  > Did Erikson know that there was an entire continent with advanced societies completely seperated from the "old world"? Did Columbus know that?
- CRConrad 5y ago
  > Did Erikson know that there was an entire continent with advanced societies completely seperated from the "old world"? Because that is what Columbus discovered. If knowing it was separate from the Old World is what makes it a discovery, then for all we know Columbus absolutely didn't discover any such thing. He went to his grave convinced he'd found a route to India, which was very much the Old World. Conquered by Alexander and everything; stuff doesn't get much older than that.

avgcorrection 5y ago

That dude who was first to the South Pole wasn’t “really” first, either; he just showed up and, you know, left before some arbitrary time limit that I made up.

broof 5y ago
well yeah Erikson was first, but he didn't "discover" it in the sense that Columbus did. I would say they're categorically different. See my comment below.
- krapp 5y ago
  Columbus never even set foot in North America. He "discovered" some islands in the Caribbean and Bahamas. The narrative of Columbus "discovering" the land that would become the United States has never been anything but propaganda[0]. [0]https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/06/15/columbus-never-set-foot-here-why-do-we-remember-him/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/06/15/columbus-n...
  - edgyquant 5y ago
    I’ve never heard anyone say the Columbus discovered North America except maybe if you include the Caribbean as part of North America.
    - krapp 5y ago
      It's an old and very popular misconception, persistently believed by most in the US.
- avgcorrection 5y ago
  Yeah yeah, you’re just repeating yourself. Setting your own idiosyncratic/arbitrary rules.
  - edgyquant 5y ago

zardo 5y ago

By the standards of his culture, Leif Erickson's discovery of Vinland had as much publicity as any distant event. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saga_of_the_Greenlanders https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saga_of_the_Greenlanders

burkaman 5y ago

Why do you think he didn't make a big deal out of it? I feel like any event we know about from thousand-year-old sagas must have been a big deal, otherwise it wouldn't have been preserved and recorded.