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Why does Apple not open up their hardware to other operating systems like Linux. They will already get our money from the hardware purchases, what more do they

Why does Apple not open up their hardware to other operating systems like Linux. They will already get our money from the hardware purchases, what more do they want. I know Asahi Linux exists but without Apple's (driver) support it will never reach macOS on M1 level performance. (If someone disagrees, please compare Nouveau with proprietary Nvidia drivers.)

krunkcoin 5y ago
They did open up their hardware to other operating systems: they engineered a feature into their secure boot system which allows a Mac's owner to attest (with physical presence required) that they'd like to run a kernel not signed by Apple. That's the door Asahi Linux uses. It isn't there on iOS devices, even those also based on M1. Everything else you're asking for would require them to spend significantly more money and/or engineering resources on supporting the port, and that just doesn't seem like a thing Apple's senior management would go for.
basisword 5y ago
As cool as that would be, why would they? I mean what do they have to gain from it? Maybe a few more Linux users will buy MacBook's but not enough to impact their bottom line. Plus those users wouldn't be part of the Apple ecosystem and at least since the iPod Apple's goal has been bringing you into the ecosystem.
- someguydave 5y ago
  Apple could gain some trust and goodwill from the technical user base they have been alienating for 10 years
  - presentation 5y ago
    As though programmers don't use Macs, at least in SV they're by far the device of choice.
  - spacedcowboy 5y ago
    shrug doesn't look like they need it. As long as they keep churning out machines and devices that make people's wallets reflexively open, they don't have to pander to the tiny minorities... Not a particularly nice situation to be in, if you're not in the Apple ecosystem, but there's the world we live in, and the world we wish it to be. Only sometimes do those worlds overlap.
  - LASR 5y ago
    I bet the number of people within the technical user base for whom the lack of linux support is a deal-breaker is significantly smaller than the number of people who don't care. So while it's a nice boost in goodwill, it's probably small enough for Apple to safely ignore.
- bilbo0s 5y ago
  More importantly, those users would complain and some would even ask for support. As horrible as this is going to sound, I'm thinking both Apple and Microsoft file that under: "Some users are not worth the trouble." Probably OK for server users though? But Apple doesn't really make servers.
  - hnfong 5y ago
    Speaking of fancy new chips for servers, I'm not seeing anyone complain about Amazon not opening up their graviton processors... (can't even buy one for F's sake, have to lease them via AWS)
walls 5y ago
Nobody wants the Linux desktop experience associated with their brand.
- n1000 5y ago
  Dell does
- masterof0 5y ago
  ^ I agree, and also the support burden of N distros, for N -> inf.
- PUSH_AX 5y ago
  Steam hardware?
  - ctdonath 5y ago
    Operative word: "want". There was no other viable option.
    - teddyfrozevelt 5y ago
      Valve didn't have to include a KDE desktop on the Steam Deck, but they still did, so it sure seems like they wanted it it.
gumby 5y ago
> Why does Apple not open up their hardware to other operating systems It's extra effort they don't want to go to. They spent a lot of engineering and support time working with MS on boot camp, handling (what are to them) special cases and back compatibility. They really needed it at the time, but no longer need it so make no effort in making it happen. And Apple never did linux support, it's simply that linux runs on most hardware that runs windows. Among other things, here's a major reason why it's hard: Apple supports their hardware and software for quite a long time, but is happy to break back compatibility along the way. MS considers back compatibility critical, despite the cost. I respect both positions. But getting windows running on intel Mac hardware wasn't automatic, and required developing support for bits of code designed (by MS) for all sorts of special cases. They simply needed it, so did the work, with the cooperation of MS.
jzb 5y ago
They have some of your money, but they want more of it. Mac owners are more likely to buy iPads and iPhones and become embedded in the Apple ecosystem. That draws people into the app stores, which Apple gets a cut of, and into Apple Music and Apple TV... If they're very successful they get you to sign up for Apple Pay and the Apple Card and get a chunk of your spend for things entirely unrelated to Apple. If they just sell you the hardware and you can easily run Linux on it, you might not run macOS and move further into their ecosystem.
- jzb 5y ago
  Also - even if they only wanted your hardware money, if you run Linux on Apple hardware, there's less chance your next purchase will be Apple hardware. Linux is portable, macOS isn't (legally, easily -- Hackintoshes notwithstanding, but even those are going to go away when Apple ditches Intel hardware for good).
  - DeathArrow 5y ago
    >Hackintoshes notwithstanding, but even those are going to go away when Apple ditches Intel hardware for good Maybe people will find a way to build ARM hackintoshes. :)
oneplane 5y ago
Because Apple intends to sell UX, not just some hardware.
klelatti 5y ago
I’d like this but you make it sound like this would not require significant effort from them. I suspect they would say if you want to run Linux you can do it in a VM and use the already debugged MacOS device drivers.
ctdonath 5y ago
Apple's core competency is selling hardware, with a tightly integrated ecosystem to optimize user experience with that hardware. There is no incentive to facilitate introducing that hardware into an uncontrolled foreign ecosystem. Apple does not want users looking at their computer while muttering "this sucks" when "this" is an OS+UI famous for incomplete/buggy behavior. (I've tried going all-in for Linux several times. The amount of "oh, you've got to tweak this..." makes it unusable.)
kitsunesoba 5y ago
Nouveau is a bit of a special case because Nvidia actively blocks third party drivers from fully leveraging the capabilities of their cards. While Apple isn’t officially supporting any particular third party OS on M-series hardware, they’re also not obstructing the creation of high performance third party drivers for it.

krunkcoin 5y ago

They did open up their hardware to other operating systems: they engineered a feature into their secure boot system which allows a Mac's owner to attest (with physical presence required) that they'd like to run a kernel not signed by Apple. That's the door Asahi Linux uses. It isn't there on iOS devices, even those also based on M1. Everything else you're asking for would require them to spend significantly more money and/or engineering resources on supporting the port, and that just doesn't seem like a thing Apple's senior management would go for.

basisword 5y ago

As cool as that would be, why would they? I mean what do they have to gain from it? Maybe a few more Linux users will buy MacBook's but not enough to impact their bottom line. Plus those users wouldn't be part of the Apple ecosystem and at least since the iPod Apple's goal has been bringing you into the ecosystem.

someguydave 5y ago
Apple could gain some trust and goodwill from the technical user base they have been alienating for 10 years
- presentation 5y ago
  As though programmers don't use Macs, at least in SV they're by far the device of choice.
- spacedcowboy 5y ago
  shrug doesn't look like they need it. As long as they keep churning out machines and devices that make people's wallets reflexively open, they don't have to pander to the tiny minorities... Not a particularly nice situation to be in, if you're not in the Apple ecosystem, but there's the world we live in, and the world we wish it to be. Only sometimes do those worlds overlap.
- LASR 5y ago
  I bet the number of people within the technical user base for whom the lack of linux support is a deal-breaker is significantly smaller than the number of people who don't care. So while it's a nice boost in goodwill, it's probably small enough for Apple to safely ignore.
bilbo0s 5y ago
More importantly, those users would complain and some would even ask for support. As horrible as this is going to sound, I'm thinking both Apple and Microsoft file that under: "Some users are not worth the trouble." Probably OK for server users though? But Apple doesn't really make servers.
- hnfong 5y ago
  Speaking of fancy new chips for servers, I'm not seeing anyone complain about Amazon not opening up their graviton processors... (can't even buy one for F's sake, have to lease them via AWS)

walls 5y ago

Nobody wants the Linux desktop experience associated with their brand.

n1000 5y ago
Dell does
masterof0 5y ago
^ I agree, and also the support burden of N distros, for N -> inf.
PUSH_AX 5y ago
Steam hardware?
- ctdonath 5y ago
  Operative word: "want". There was no other viable option.
  - teddyfrozevelt 5y ago
    Valve didn't have to include a KDE desktop on the Steam Deck, but they still did, so it sure seems like they wanted it it.

gumby 5y ago

> Why does Apple not open up their hardware to other operating systems It's extra effort they don't want to go to. They spent a lot of engineering and support time working with MS on boot camp, handling (what are to them) special cases and back compatibility. They really needed it at the time, but no longer need it so make no effort in making it happen. And Apple never did linux support, it's simply that linux runs on most hardware that runs windows. Among other things, here's a major reason why it's hard: Apple supports their hardware and software for quite a long time, but is happy to break back compatibility along the way. MS considers back compatibility critical, despite the cost. I respect both positions. But getting windows running on intel Mac hardware wasn't automatic, and required developing support for bits of code designed (by MS) for all sorts of special cases. They simply needed it, so did the work, with the cooperation of MS.

jzb 5y ago

They have some of your money, but they want more of it. Mac owners are more likely to buy iPads and iPhones and become embedded in the Apple ecosystem. That draws people into the app stores, which Apple gets a cut of, and into Apple Music and Apple TV... If they're very successful they get you to sign up for Apple Pay and the Apple Card and get a chunk of your spend for things entirely unrelated to Apple. If they just sell you the hardware and you can easily run Linux on it, you might not run macOS and move further into their ecosystem.

jzb 5y ago
Also - even if they only wanted your hardware money, if you run Linux on Apple hardware, there's less chance your next purchase will be Apple hardware. Linux is portable, macOS isn't (legally, easily -- Hackintoshes notwithstanding, but even those are going to go away when Apple ditches Intel hardware for good).
- DeathArrow 5y ago
  >Hackintoshes notwithstanding, but even those are going to go away when Apple ditches Intel hardware for good Maybe people will find a way to build ARM hackintoshes. :)

oneplane 5y ago

Because Apple intends to sell UX, not just some hardware.

klelatti 5y ago

I’d like this but you make it sound like this would not require significant effort from them. I suspect they would say if you want to run Linux you can do it in a VM and use the already debugged MacOS device drivers.

ctdonath 5y ago

Apple's core competency is selling hardware, with a tightly integrated ecosystem to optimize user experience with that hardware. There is no incentive to facilitate introducing that hardware into an uncontrolled foreign ecosystem. Apple does not want users looking at their computer while muttering "this sucks" when "this" is an OS+UI famous for incomplete/buggy behavior. (I've tried going all-in for Linux several times. The amount of "oh, you've got to tweak this..." makes it unusable.)

kitsunesoba 5y ago

Nouveau is a bit of a special case because Nvidia actively blocks third party drivers from fully leveraging the capabilities of their cards. While Apple isn’t officially supporting any particular third party OS on M-series hardware, they’re also not obstructing the creation of high performance third party drivers for it.