3 ms·

My (limited) understanding here is that the US patent doesn't grant a monopoly to Moderna internationally and that breaks down the quid quo pro here. Other coun

My (limited) understanding here is that the US patent doesn't grant a monopoly to Moderna internationally and that breaks down the quid quo pro here. Other countries can and probably will nationalize the vaccine production and not pay Moderna licensing fees, or offer a take-it-or-leave-it pittance. I agree this is a major breakdown though and given the circumstances I wish Moderna could have just been paid off some small licensing fees and collaborated with this other company instead of wasting time reverse engineering a lifesaving vaccine.

gpm 5y ago
From an IP perspective, if Moderna doesn't think the benefit of disclosing the invention is worth the value of the patent (and you present a coherent argument for that), that's ok, they can not have a patent. But we shouldn't let them have their cake (the patent) and eat it to (not disclose the invention). From a broader world perspective it's also pretty terrible that time is being wasted reverse engineering this instead of licensing it during a pandemic, but that's largely a separate discussion.
- Retric 5y ago
  They have publicly agreed not to go after anyone that uses that patent. Patent trolls effectively force their hands into applying for a patent, but they only bothered in the US due to how crazy our IP system is. The only way they could have made this more open is to actively sent people to train other companies, but frankly their are several different vaccines available so it’s hardly in them.
olalonde 5y ago
There is no such thing as a worldwide patent. A US patent only grants protection in the US. Presumably they have applied for patents in several countries though.
- FemmeAndroid 5y ago
  > There is no such thing as an international patent. Sure there are: - ARIPO patents can protect in Botswana, Eswatini, Gambia, Ghana, Kenya, Lesotho, Liberia, Malawi, Mozambique, Namibia, Rwanda, Sao Tome and Principe, Sierra Leone, Somalia, the Sudan, the United Republic of Tanzania, Uganda, Zambia and Zimbabwe. - GCC patents can protect in United Arab Emirates, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Oman, Kuwait and Bahrain. - Eurasian patents can protect in Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Russian Federation, Tajikistan and Turkmenistan. - EPO patents can protect in too many countries to list. - Hague design patents can protect in too many countries to list. The point that patents are regional is definitely true, and country specific patents tend not to provide protections in other countries. but I figured I'd mention that there are many multi-country regions which are certainly international patents. :) I should also point out that while a 'US patent' might not provide international protection, most people looking for international protections will probably be using the PCT (Patent Cooperation Treaty) or other mechanisms for multi-country filings, with is another mechanism through which you can make one international application to most countries. For some basics of how the PCT works, see: https://www.wipo.int/pct/en/faqs/faqs.html https://www.wipo.int/pct/en/faqs/faqs.html
  - olalonde 5y ago
    Oops, replaced "international" with "worldwide".
908B64B197 5y ago
> Other countries can and probably will nationalize the vaccine production and not pay Moderna licensing fees, or offer a take-it-or-leave-it pittance. That's just lazy: wait for someone to do the hard work and then just copy. Why not invest in research instead and contribute something?

gpm 5y ago

From an IP perspective, if Moderna doesn't think the benefit of disclosing the invention is worth the value of the patent (and you present a coherent argument for that), that's ok, they can not have a patent. But we shouldn't let them have their cake (the patent) and eat it to (not disclose the invention). From a broader world perspective it's also pretty terrible that time is being wasted reverse engineering this instead of licensing it during a pandemic, but that's largely a separate discussion.

Retric 5y ago
They have publicly agreed not to go after anyone that uses that patent. Patent trolls effectively force their hands into applying for a patent, but they only bothered in the US due to how crazy our IP system is. The only way they could have made this more open is to actively sent people to train other companies, but frankly their are several different vaccines available so it’s hardly in them.

olalonde 5y ago

There is no such thing as a worldwide patent. A US patent only grants protection in the US. Presumably they have applied for patents in several countries though.

FemmeAndroid 5y ago
> There is no such thing as an international patent. Sure there are: - ARIPO patents can protect in Botswana, Eswatini, Gambia, Ghana, Kenya, Lesotho, Liberia, Malawi, Mozambique, Namibia, Rwanda, Sao Tome and Principe, Sierra Leone, Somalia, the Sudan, the United Republic of Tanzania, Uganda, Zambia and Zimbabwe. - GCC patents can protect in United Arab Emirates, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Oman, Kuwait and Bahrain. - Eurasian patents can protect in Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Russian Federation, Tajikistan and Turkmenistan. - EPO patents can protect in too many countries to list. - Hague design patents can protect in too many countries to list. The point that patents are regional is definitely true, and country specific patents tend not to provide protections in other countries. but I figured I'd mention that there are many multi-country regions which are certainly international patents. :) I should also point out that while a 'US patent' might not provide international protection, most people looking for international protections will probably be using the PCT (Patent Cooperation Treaty) or other mechanisms for multi-country filings, with is another mechanism through which you can make one international application to most countries. For some basics of how the PCT works, see: https://www.wipo.int/pct/en/faqs/faqs.html https://www.wipo.int/pct/en/faqs/faqs.html
- olalonde 5y ago
  Oops, replaced "international" with "worldwide".

908B64B197 5y ago

> Other countries can and probably will nationalize the vaccine production and not pay Moderna licensing fees, or offer a take-it-or-leave-it pittance. That's just lazy: wait for someone to do the hard work and then just copy. Why not invest in research instead and contribute something?