8 ms·

(caveat i worked at MS for years but now don't) One of Microsoft's greatest strengths on show here. Embrace and extend. They made a mess of trying to build an

(caveat i worked at MS for years but now don't) One of Microsoft's greatest strengths on show here. Embrace and extend. They made a mess of trying to build an app business with windows RT, Windows 8, windows 10. They can't get into the apple appstore ecosystem so they pivot to embracing the Android ecosystem to have an app catalog on windows. (Ironically what google did with Android was the play that Microsoft should have done with windows phone - classic OEM play which they had done successfully for years before)

ohazi 5y ago
> One of Microsoft's greatest strengths on show here. Embrace and extend. Why would Android developers go along with anything Microsoft tries to "extend" Android with when Google will just go "lol, no"? This seems more like a desperate grasp than "embrace/extend/extinguish."
paxys 5y ago
The third part of that strategy is "extinguish", which cannot happen considering Google controls the Android ecosystem.
SahAssar 5y ago
The Windows Android layer can only install from the amazon store and does not include any google play stuff, right? Is the amazon android app ecosystem that much better than the current windows store?
- int_19h 5y ago
  The current Windows Store doesn't have many good non-desktop apps. Even just getting a properly working Kindle app would be a pretty big deal.
- wvenable 5y ago
  To answer your second question, very likely. Microsoft would have zero luck populating their own Android store from scratch. It's a win-win for both companies as they're playing second fiddle to the Google Play Store and maybe even the Samsung store. Attracting developers to submit apps requires a large market.
  - SahAssar 5y ago
    The question wasn't if it was better than a new, from-scratch store. It was if it was better than the current windows store.
    - wvenable 5y ago
      The Windows Store would always be from scratch for Android apps. This is just adding the apps from the Amazon store into the Windows Store.
      - SahAssar 5y ago
        What would be the reason to use android apps on windows besides them not being available on windows? What feature could an android app running on windows do that a windows application couldn't do?
        wvenable 5y ago
        The only reason to run Android apps on Windows is because there aren't native Windows versions of these applications.
        SahAssar 5y ago
        Then you see why I compare the current windows store to the amazon android store and not a hypothetical new windows android store.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- DeathArrow 5y ago
  Probably yes. People don't like to use app stores unless they are forced.
  - blacksmith_tb 5y ago
    Or maybe I'd even say "people don't like to use terrible app stores unless forced". Unfortunately, all of the commercial ones I have used are really terrible (gPlay, the Apple App Store, the MS Store), though at least on everything but iOS you aren't 'forced' to use them per se, just aggressively encouraged. It's kind of mind-boggling to me that none of them have managed to make an acceptable example, how hard can search + suggest be? Even when they implement wishlist/bookmarking, it's clunky and frustrating.
    - babypuncher 5y ago
      I don't think Google Play or the Apple App Store are terrible, at least for end-users. They have the apps people want and function as advertised. The Microsoft Store struggled because initially it was limited to UWP apps. Developers could not easily ship their existing Windows software on it. Microsoft shot themselves in the foot by excluding the store from Windows' biggest selling point: it's extensive library of existing software. To make things worse, the store has always been a bit...buggy, compared to the contemporaries I mentioned earlier. I have, on more than one occasion, spent half an hour troubleshooting why a game wouldn't download and install, with the store throwing obtuse unhelpful errors.
      - greggman3 5y ago
        It's really hard to say if the Apple App store is good for users since user's have no choice there is no way to know. I know for me, searching for apps on the Apple App store is particularly frustrating. So many bad apps trying to scam people for subscriptions for simple apps. I could certainly imagine a successful Steam iOS store that had a better experience for games than the Apple iOS App Store. Better reviews, better community, better suggestions, and sales (something the Apple App Store doesn't do AFAIK), more ways for devs to connect with users, better store pages with more options for devs, better categories/tags, etc... Also cross platform so buying some iOS game gets me the same game on Android, PC, Mac, Linux, were appropriate Also Steam allows adult content if that's your thing.
ajvs 5y ago
Unfortunately another of their strength lies in the 3rd part: "extinguish". It's only a matter of time before their recent software of WSL, GitHub and Android on Windows becomes yet another walled garden.
- criddell 5y ago
  So you're saying it's only a matter of time before Windows, which is 35 years old, might become a walled garden?
  - sangnoir 5y ago
    > So you're saying it's only a matter of time before Windows, which is 35 years old, might become a walled garden? Yes - Microsoft had credible plans to wall-off app installation via an iOS-stye app store. Valve considered this threat to be viable enough, they developed SteamOS and promoted Steam Machines. Since then, Microsoft has continued its cryptographic crusade to plug all avenues for loading software that's not Microsoft-approved from pre-boot, right up to the userland. Currently, Microsoft already have a turnkey walled garden
  - unicornporn 5y ago
    I find that the argument embedded in that question isn't very insightful. The developments of personal computing since subscription applications became prevalent and app stores were integrated into operating systems has made things quite different from the era that preceded this one. Apple used to sell OS upgrades. Today you can basically run Windows 10 for free. The revenue streams are different these days and they have plenty of incentives to turn your OS into a mall.
    - criddell 5y ago
      Windows has essentially always been free. There have been something like two billion PCs sold running Windows. The number of people who purchased a non-OEM copy is relatively small.
      - 5y ago
mschuster91 5y ago
> Ironically what google did with Android was the play that Microsoft should have done with windows phone - classic OEM play which they had done successfully for years before Windows CE was certainly an interesting platform. The problem was it tried to be some sort of ... hybrid. On one side it tried to have some semblance of being Windows (not just in terms of UI but also in terms of APIs), on the other side it was different enough to not be Windows (weird CPU architectures such as Hitachi's SuperH, for one). Not to mention unlike Apple's Xcode and Android Studio, developing for Windows CE required paying through the nose for Visual Studio and addons (or pirating them). And then, once the iPhone and Android hit the market, Microsoft just stopped development or even trying to catch up... and when they entered the field again, they messed it up completely.

ohazi 5y ago

> One of Microsoft's greatest strengths on show here. Embrace and extend. Why would Android developers go along with anything Microsoft tries to "extend" Android with when Google will just go "lol, no"? This seems more like a desperate grasp than "embrace/extend/extinguish."

paxys 5y ago

The third part of that strategy is "extinguish", which cannot happen considering Google controls the Android ecosystem.

SahAssar 5y ago

The Windows Android layer can only install from the amazon store and does not include any google play stuff, right? Is the amazon android app ecosystem that much better than the current windows store?

int_19h 5y ago
The current Windows Store doesn't have many good non-desktop apps. Even just getting a properly working Kindle app would be a pretty big deal.
wvenable 5y ago
To answer your second question, very likely. Microsoft would have zero luck populating their own Android store from scratch. It's a win-win for both companies as they're playing second fiddle to the Google Play Store and maybe even the Samsung store. Attracting developers to submit apps requires a large market.
- SahAssar 5y ago
  The question wasn't if it was better than a new, from-scratch store. It was if it was better than the current windows store.
  - wvenable 5y ago
    The Windows Store would always be from scratch for Android apps. This is just adding the apps from the Amazon store into the Windows Store.
    - SahAssar 5y ago
      What would be the reason to use android apps on windows besides them not being available on windows? What feature could an android app running on windows do that a windows application couldn't do?
      - wvenable 5y ago
        The only reason to run Android apps on Windows is because there aren't native Windows versions of these applications.
        SahAssar 5y ago
        Then you see why I compare the current windows store to the amazon android store and not a hypothetical new windows android store.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
DeathArrow 5y ago
Probably yes. People don't like to use app stores unless they are forced.
- blacksmith_tb 5y ago
  Or maybe I'd even say "people don't like to use terrible app stores unless forced". Unfortunately, all of the commercial ones I have used are really terrible (gPlay, the Apple App Store, the MS Store), though at least on everything but iOS you aren't 'forced' to use them per se, just aggressively encouraged. It's kind of mind-boggling to me that none of them have managed to make an acceptable example, how hard can search + suggest be? Even when they implement wishlist/bookmarking, it's clunky and frustrating.
  - babypuncher 5y ago
    I don't think Google Play or the Apple App Store are terrible, at least for end-users. They have the apps people want and function as advertised. The Microsoft Store struggled because initially it was limited to UWP apps. Developers could not easily ship their existing Windows software on it. Microsoft shot themselves in the foot by excluding the store from Windows' biggest selling point: it's extensive library of existing software. To make things worse, the store has always been a bit...buggy, compared to the contemporaries I mentioned earlier. I have, on more than one occasion, spent half an hour troubleshooting why a game wouldn't download and install, with the store throwing obtuse unhelpful errors.
    - greggman3 5y ago
      It's really hard to say if the Apple App store is good for users since user's have no choice there is no way to know. I know for me, searching for apps on the Apple App store is particularly frustrating. So many bad apps trying to scam people for subscriptions for simple apps. I could certainly imagine a successful Steam iOS store that had a better experience for games than the Apple iOS App Store. Better reviews, better community, better suggestions, and sales (something the Apple App Store doesn't do AFAIK), more ways for devs to connect with users, better store pages with more options for devs, better categories/tags, etc... Also cross platform so buying some iOS game gets me the same game on Android, PC, Mac, Linux, were appropriate Also Steam allows adult content if that's your thing.

ajvs 5y ago

Unfortunately another of their strength lies in the 3rd part: "extinguish". It's only a matter of time before their recent software of WSL, GitHub and Android on Windows becomes yet another walled garden.

criddell 5y ago
So you're saying it's only a matter of time before Windows, which is 35 years old, might become a walled garden?
- sangnoir 5y ago
  > So you're saying it's only a matter of time before Windows, which is 35 years old, might become a walled garden? Yes - Microsoft had credible plans to wall-off app installation via an iOS-stye app store. Valve considered this threat to be viable enough, they developed SteamOS and promoted Steam Machines. Since then, Microsoft has continued its cryptographic crusade to plug all avenues for loading software that's not Microsoft-approved from pre-boot, right up to the userland. Currently, Microsoft already have a turnkey walled garden
- unicornporn 5y ago
  I find that the argument embedded in that question isn't very insightful. The developments of personal computing since subscription applications became prevalent and app stores were integrated into operating systems has made things quite different from the era that preceded this one. Apple used to sell OS upgrades. Today you can basically run Windows 10 for free. The revenue streams are different these days and they have plenty of incentives to turn your OS into a mall.
  - criddell 5y ago
    Windows has essentially always been free. There have been something like two billion PCs sold running Windows. The number of people who purchased a non-OEM copy is relatively small.
    - 5y ago

mschuster91 5y ago

> Ironically what google did with Android was the play that Microsoft should have done with windows phone - classic OEM play which they had done successfully for years before Windows CE was certainly an interesting platform. The problem was it tried to be some sort of ... hybrid. On one side it tried to have some semblance of being Windows (not just in terms of UI but also in terms of APIs), on the other side it was different enough to not be Windows (weird CPU architectures such as Hitachi's SuperH, for one). Not to mention unlike Apple's Xcode and Android Studio, developing for Windows CE required paying through the nose for Visual Studio and addons (or pirating them). And then, once the iPhone and Android hit the market, Microsoft just stopped development or even trying to catch up... and when they entered the field again, they messed it up completely.