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This is a pretty worthless take from the HN community that Facebook==Bad. I've been watching the investments in VR, and I think it's a pretty bold move and only

This is a pretty worthless take from the HN community that Facebook==Bad. I've been watching the investments in VR, and I think it's a pretty bold move and only one that a founder-led company could even do. Fact is that Facebook has been largely responsible for VR up to this point and has sold the vast majority of all the HMDs out there. The VR/AR tech is brimming with possibilities and even a few days spent playing with the Quest 2 makes that obvious for anyone paying attention. They'll soon have 20k employees working on VR/AR. They are releasing a new HMD in a week that's rumored to bring face and eye, and potentially body tracking. They are announcing a company rebrand at the VR conference. Zuck has every indication of being all in on a pivot, from stale and dangerous social media that may soon be regulated out of existence, to fresh new pastures. Tech companies already sit in the middle of so much of our relationships with each other and each one of them delivers a terrible low-bandwidth experience. I believe Facebook's end game here is no less than digital teleportation. Put on a pair of sunglasses and you can be in the room with anyone in the world. It will be radically personal and intimate after decades of impersonal, disconnected, inhumane and isolating tech. And anyway, regardless of outcome, it will surely be more entertaining to watch a trillion dollar company go fully down the rabbit hole of some kind of cyberpunk fantasy than to watch them continue to dig the hole deeper on their society destroying social media tech.

kixiQu 5y ago
> And anyway, regardless of outcome, it will surely be more entertaining to watch a trillion dollar company go fully down the rabbit hole of some kind of cyberpunk fantasy than to watch them continue to dig the hole deeper on their society destroying social media tech. I think the problem is that they seem to be headed towards doing both.
- dougmwne 5y ago
  Yes, they will do both as long as there is money in social media. There will be gobs of money there, up until the point it's made illegal or defanged. I think the probability of that happening continues to increase, either the democracies will save themselves or the future autocracies will do it for them.
barbazoo 5y ago
> Put on a pair of sunglasses and you can be in the room with anyone in the world. It will be radically personal and intimate after decades of impersonal, disconnected, inhumane and isolating tech. And how will that makes them money? The only thing that's going to be more "personal and intimate" is the way in which they deliver ads and the same divisive and polarizing content. It'll be be way worse that it is now. Imagine how bad things got simply by inserting text and pictures into your social media feed. What happens when you're fully immersed in the "metaverse" with ads and divisive content literally be all around you. And no two people get the same content either. It's horrifying.
- dougmwne 5y ago
  Fully recording and controlling an immersive environment sounds like the ultimate money making proposition to me. I've spent time playing Poker Stars, Table Tennis, Rec Room and Alt Space interacting with adults. The interactions I've had are nothing like posting void-screaming updates to your feed and are everything like being there with a real person. People are kinder too, this is after all a real person in front of you and it is just as intensely embarrassing to make a fool out of yourself as it would be in real life. I recently had a nice conversation with a man about his partner's cancer diagnosis and was able to offer him real human empathy in a moment where the headset and avatars fell away. It reminds me of the intimacy that old POTS telephone lines had, like whispering into each other's ears. The potential is all there and the execution lies in the decade ahead. We will see, but I am paying attention.
- jonny_wonny 5y ago
  We don’t have to imagine what it’s like to be surrounded by ads, because that’s literally the physical world. Billboards, posters, and screens creating awareness for new brands and content are everywhere we look. It’s been that way for decades, and the world hasn’t ended yet. It’s not that big of a deal.
  - barbazoo 5y ago
    I don't think what you're talking about, where I live, life is not at all like you described. Billboards aren't allowed except on reserves here in Canada. Unless you're in a commercial setting, you don't see posters or screens everywhere.
donmcronald 5y ago
It would be great if Facebook announced an open platform that focuses on enjoyable experiences rather than a closed platform that misappropriates PII and pushes negative interactions in a misguided quest for engagement. I won't hold my breath though. The value in VR is easy to see. Most kids I've seen that get to try out VR come out of it like a meth addict that wants to dive back in for the next high. It's insane. I think VR has a huge natural appeal and Facebook will just buy everything so they can own an entire growth industry. They'll keep the HMDs locked down and will destroy all competition with anti-competitive practices while regulators continue to look the other way. The entire VR industry will end up reaching a fraction of it's potential, but it'll still be profitable for Facebook so everyone will consider it a success. I'd pay to see MarkVR where once a month the community gets to vote to put Zuckerberg into a VR community on the Facebook platform and he live streams the experience for 1h. I think that's one way you can tell the difference between a visionary/enthusiast and someone that's just buying things they think will make money. One loves the idea of participating in the community they're building and wants to build a healthy community with enjoyable experiences. The other would do everything in their power to avoid it because making money is the only goal and it doesn't matter if the community and experiences are terrible. Which one do you think Zuckerberg is?
skizm 5y ago
> regulated out of existence Regulation would further entrench Facebook as the only social network able to implement everything legally required to be a social network. Facebook wants legislation the same way Amazon and Walmart want increases in minimum wages: so they can push out smaller competitors and upstarts easier.

kixiQu 5y ago

> And anyway, regardless of outcome, it will surely be more entertaining to watch a trillion dollar company go fully down the rabbit hole of some kind of cyberpunk fantasy than to watch them continue to dig the hole deeper on their society destroying social media tech. I think the problem is that they seem to be headed towards doing both.

dougmwne 5y ago
Yes, they will do both as long as there is money in social media. There will be gobs of money there, up until the point it's made illegal or defanged. I think the probability of that happening continues to increase, either the democracies will save themselves or the future autocracies will do it for them.

barbazoo 5y ago

> Put on a pair of sunglasses and you can be in the room with anyone in the world. It will be radically personal and intimate after decades of impersonal, disconnected, inhumane and isolating tech. And how will that makes them money? The only thing that's going to be more "personal and intimate" is the way in which they deliver ads and the same divisive and polarizing content. It'll be be way worse that it is now. Imagine how bad things got simply by inserting text and pictures into your social media feed. What happens when you're fully immersed in the "metaverse" with ads and divisive content literally be all around you. And no two people get the same content either. It's horrifying.

dougmwne 5y ago
Fully recording and controlling an immersive environment sounds like the ultimate money making proposition to me. I've spent time playing Poker Stars, Table Tennis, Rec Room and Alt Space interacting with adults. The interactions I've had are nothing like posting void-screaming updates to your feed and are everything like being there with a real person. People are kinder too, this is after all a real person in front of you and it is just as intensely embarrassing to make a fool out of yourself as it would be in real life. I recently had a nice conversation with a man about his partner's cancer diagnosis and was able to offer him real human empathy in a moment where the headset and avatars fell away. It reminds me of the intimacy that old POTS telephone lines had, like whispering into each other's ears. The potential is all there and the execution lies in the decade ahead. We will see, but I am paying attention.
jonny_wonny 5y ago
We don’t have to imagine what it’s like to be surrounded by ads, because that’s literally the physical world. Billboards, posters, and screens creating awareness for new brands and content are everywhere we look. It’s been that way for decades, and the world hasn’t ended yet. It’s not that big of a deal.
- barbazoo 5y ago
  I don't think what you're talking about, where I live, life is not at all like you described. Billboards aren't allowed except on reserves here in Canada. Unless you're in a commercial setting, you don't see posters or screens everywhere.

donmcronald 5y ago

It would be great if Facebook announced an open platform that focuses on enjoyable experiences rather than a closed platform that misappropriates PII and pushes negative interactions in a misguided quest for engagement. I won't hold my breath though. The value in VR is easy to see. Most kids I've seen that get to try out VR come out of it like a meth addict that wants to dive back in for the next high. It's insane. I think VR has a huge natural appeal and Facebook will just buy everything so they can own an entire growth industry. They'll keep the HMDs locked down and will destroy all competition with anti-competitive practices while regulators continue to look the other way. The entire VR industry will end up reaching a fraction of it's potential, but it'll still be profitable for Facebook so everyone will consider it a success. I'd pay to see MarkVR where once a month the community gets to vote to put Zuckerberg into a VR community on the Facebook platform and he live streams the experience for 1h. I think that's one way you can tell the difference between a visionary/enthusiast and someone that's just buying things they think will make money. One loves the idea of participating in the community they're building and wants to build a healthy community with enjoyable experiences. The other would do everything in their power to avoid it because making money is the only goal and it doesn't matter if the community and experiences are terrible. Which one do you think Zuckerberg is?

skizm 5y ago

> regulated out of existence Regulation would further entrench Facebook as the only social network able to implement everything legally required to be a social network. Facebook wants legislation the same way Amazon and Walmart want increases in minimum wages: so they can push out smaller competitors and upstarts easier.